DALPA Spins Off Compass

BobDDuck

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
So DAL people... when are ya'll going to get your man Moak under control? Scope? What scope? Oh we captured a bunch of 75 seat flying despite giving it away in the past? Great... let's give it away again.

Gaaahhhh! Is 75 seats still too small for Big Boy pilots?

By a narrow margin, Delta Air Lines' pilots union leaders have recommended the creation of a separate union branch to represent pilots at a regional carrier acquired as part of the merger with Northwest Airlines.

Pilots at Virginia-based Compass Airlines had been represented by the pilots union at Northwest. But Delta's pilot union historically has represented only pilots who fly for the main airline.

Air Line Pilots Association leaders at Delta voted 13-12 last week to recommend that the national union set up a separate ALPA unit for Compass, according to a memo by Delta ALPA chairman Lee Moak. If approved by the national union, the restructuring would be effective in October of 2010.

Pilots at Delta subsidiary Comair and former subsidiary Atlantic Southeast Airlines are already represented by separate ALPA units. They petitioned unsuccessfully in 2000 to be merged into the main ALPA unit, arguing it would result in fairer representation. At the time, Comair and ASA pilot leaders said that, on issues that affect pay and career advancement, the larger chapter has more clout and can negotiate terms that hurt the smaller units. One such issue is limits on regional jet use, which large unions have sought in order to hold down the amount of flying done by lower-paid regional pilots.

Compass pilots fly Embraer 175 jets out of Northwest hubs Minneapolis, Detroit and Memphis.
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Don't even get me started.

Just wait until him and the rest of his circle get to national. :(

Personally, I'd rather have absorbed Compass, recaptured some of the feeder flying and started toward the ultimate goal of having Delta pilots do Delta flying. Or at least attempt.

But of course, they never ask the common guys opinion.

Which is the problem.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Don't even get me started.

Just wait until him and the rest of his circle get to national. :(

Personally, I'd rather have absorbed Compass, recaptured some of the feeder flying and started toward the ultimate goal of having Delta pilots do Delta flying. Or at least attempt.

But of course, they never ask the common guys opinion.

Which is the problem.
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If he won't heed his own pilot group's needs then recall him.
 
BobDDuck said:
Anybody rattling the Recall Sabre over there yet?
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They're very entrenched.

Basically, if you bring up an issue, instantly you don't understand and "Well, we have the best bankruptcy contract... we were in unprecedented terrority, yadda yadda yadda..."

I'm in a verbal wrestling match with the Communications Committee because they're uhh.... not. Our modern communications technique is multi-colored paper "updates" in our V-File, a Code-A-Phone and a forum that would make you stab your eyeballs out, and that's an improvement.

If you're not with the administration, you're ill-informed, we work hard, we know what's best, or my favorite when you're arguing with an insider, "(name) has the FULL support of the MEC".

At this point, the average line joe doesn't count because it's all about getting to national IMHO.

Some in the administration like to brag about a 12,000 pilot strong, "800 lbs gorilla" (not MY quote) but when it comes to basic contractual improvements:

The price of crude oil!

Bookings are down!!!!

Electronic Jepps cost as much as paper Jepps!

(whatever) must be cost-neutral!!

Don't you want a profitable company?!

Blah blah blah.

Of course I've been typecast as the "always angry guy from DFW" (??), "internet geek", and pretty much a know-nothing miscreant... Oh, just wait until the show goes to national.

I have little chirps of squawking, but I'm reluctant to come out of activist retirement. Kind of like standing in front of a Mac Truck. You can make a stand, but when they tire of you blocking the road, you'll be summarily run over and cast aside.

I hate to say I've given up as I'm still helping with some "other stuff" in other pilot groups, but I'm nervously watching who gets elected in the ATL LEC. With roll-call voting and a massive voting bloc, there are a couple of candidates running that could really turn the tide for the line pilots.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Its too bad. Much as the fight against RAH, it can be made for Compass too. They are flying LARGE regional aircraft, require a great deal of experience to be looked at (compared to what it use to be, TURBINE PIC), and have some of the lower wages in the industry for the size of aircraft flown.... I was hoping DAL would take these guy and put them at the bottom and take some flying back... Guess that was too good to be true...
 
Can't waste any negotiating power on improving the wages so the big rough and tough mainline pilots would want to fly a 75 seat craft.

Nor put up with the 5 or 6 leg days either.

I don't know. . .on one side, it's a real cock job.

On the other, I can't say I blame them.
 
There's a saying.

I think it goes something like "Those that don't study history are doomed to repeat it...." or some deal.

Seems like an appropriate thread for the quote.
 
Doug Taylor said:
They're very entrenched.

Basically, if you bring up an issue, instantly you don't understand and "Well, we have the best bankruptcy contract... we were in unprecedented terrority, yadda yadda yadda..."

I'm in a verbal wrestling match with the Communications Committee because they're uhh.... not. Our modern communications technique is multi-colored paper "updates" in our V-File, a Code-A-Phone and a forum that would make you stab your eyeballs out, and that's an improvement.

If you're not with the administration, you're ill-informed, we work hard, we know what's best, or my favorite when you're arguing with an insider, "(name) has the FULL support of the MEC".

At this point, the average line joe doesn't count because it's all about getting to national IMHO.

Some in the administration like to brag about a 12,000 pilot strong, "800 lbs gorilla" (not MY quote) but when it comes to basic contractual improvements:

The price of crude oil!

Bookings are down!!!!

Electronic Jepps cost as much as paper Jepps!

(whatever) must be cost-neutral!!

Don't you want a profitable company?!

Blah blah blah.

Of course I've been typecast as the "always angry guy from DFW" (??), "internet geek", and pretty much a know-nothing miscreant... Oh, just wait until the show goes to national.

I have little chirps of squawking, but I'm reluctant to come out of activist retirement. Kind of like standing in front of a Mac Truck. You can make a stand, but when they tire of you blocking the road, you'll be summarily run over and cast aside.

I hate to say I've given up as I'm still helping with some "other stuff" in other pilot groups, but I'm nervously watching who gets elected in the ATL LEC. With roll-call voting and a massive voting bloc, there are a couple of candidates running that could really turn the tide for the line pilots.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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I feel ya. I really wish I could vote in ATL for ACL65. I would do something but, my wife won't let me do any more Union work.
 
Is ACL65 a good guy? I follow his posts on the other forum and he seems to be pretty level headed most of the time.

I'm going to talk to some members of my MEC and see where they stand on Moak. It's going to be an uphill battle getting Regional MECs to not support a guy who gives away scope like candy on Halloween, but we've got to start somewhere.
 
Doug Taylor said:
They're very entrenched.

Basically, if you bring up an issue, instantly you don't understand and "Well, we have the best bankruptcy contract... we were in unprecedented terrority, yadda yadda yadda..."

I'm in a verbal wrestling match with the Communications Committee because they're uhh.... not. Our modern communications technique is multi-colored paper "updates" in our V-File, a Code-A-Phone and a forum that would make you stab your eyeballs out, and that's an improvement.

If you're not with the administration, you're ill-informed, we work hard, we know what's best, or my favorite when you're arguing with an insider, "(name) has the FULL support of the MEC".

At this point, the average line joe doesn't count because it's all about getting to national IMHO.

.
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LOL! That sounds EXACTLY like what goes on here in the JC Airline Pilot Forum. :D

Where's Mickley when he's really needed!!! They'd hate to have him around....
 
BobDDuck said:
Is ACL65 a good guy? I follow his posts on the other forum and he seems to be pretty level headed most of the time.

I'm going to talk to some members of my MEC and see where they stand on Moak. It's going to be an uphill battle getting Regional MECs to not support a guy who gives away scope like candy on Halloween, but we've got to start somewhere.
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...you would be amazed... it's not all about scope, especially with hoards of "RJ drivers" with a desire for mainline. Keep the "heavy iron" on real contracts..
 
higney85 said:
...you would be amazed... it's not all about scope, especially with hoards of "RJ drivers" with a desire for mainline. Keep the "heavy iron" on real contracts..
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The FFD initiative aside, on most properties it would be political suicide for an MEC to publicly advocate for mainline scope (or come out against somebody who has a history of giving it away to protect their own seat and pay). It needs to be done, but I don't know if enough MECs have the testicular fortitude to do it.
 
OldTownPilot said:
It would be interesting to hear what the 13-12 split between the "south" and the "north"
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Haha, you thought of the same thing I did initially. Well here it is, as if you weren't already guessing this:

13 for: South
12 against: North
 
yup...scope will not be recovered until mainline pilots do something about it. Bitch and moan all you want about "damn RJs....suchandsuch an airline shouldn't be flying 900's", but nothing is going to change on the regional level. If one airline takes a pass on more planes, there will be just be another (cheaper one) who will gladly take them.
 
Sadly, scope will never provide the level of job security that we are all led to believe. Any lawyer; ALPA or management, who is honest will tell you that any scope language can be beaten by a good legal team.

And then there's the old "force mejeure" clause.

The goal of both Moak and Prater is to split off the regionals so that in time, they will be able to make ALPA what they and others believe it should be: Legacies only....you know..."Taking it Back?"

The fundamental flaw is that for yet another generation, they will have squandered the opportunity to bring real unity to our profession. The unity that will be needed when the legacy carriers further reduce their workforces and farm out more code shares to foreign carriers, further reducing available jobs.

Moak and whomever will be back on their knees, begging the regional pilots for support, "reminding" the regional pilots they shafted, that they are really their friends and they should support their legacy "brothers."
 
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