ALPA's Fatigue Recommendations to the FAA

I liked CDOs at Mesa, EXCEPT the fact that you never got 'just a CDO'. You'd get a CDO to start off or end a 3-4 day trip and that sucked balls, most of the time.

I loved being on the stand-up reserve though. Went on duty at 6PM went off duty at 6AM, and since the last flight left Denver at like 9-10PM and the first one went out at 8AM I only had like 3-4 hours of actually waiting for a flight.

I purposely bid a stand-up reserve this month. I'm using one week of vacation that, through creative bidding, I scored 14 days straight off. Then the bonus of only three days in a row allowed for stand-ups means I'm winding up w/ 21 days off (unfortunately, some of my res days have already been assigned...but I could still wind up w/ more than 21). Not too shabby! :cool:
 
Its not just the regionals that have a non-"non-punitive" fatigue policy.

“I’ve been coordinating in the office for a week on behalf of Captain X and have not had an opportunity to put pen to paper. Captain X did a [Florida] turn a little over a week ago and upon arrival there were significant delays returning to [NE hub]. As some of you may know, some station managers indicate they “own” the aircraft while it’s at the gate and that was actually reiterated to me on the phone by [an ACP]. I’d suggest the station manage the boarding process, fueling, catering, you name it and when you want to give us the plane back, call me, I’ll be in the restaurant. This is an attempt to infringe upon the Captain’s authority and we don’t need to accept it and we need to let management know if that’s how they want to play, we can play that way, i.e. I sure hope the station manager has time to manage all the things required to get off the gate at push time and I’ll be in the seat 20 minutes prior to whenever you’ve told me that I can have my aircraft back.

“Captain X initially told the station that he’d like to get boarded up and push close to on time, hoping the delays would get better, however, the station manager did not agree. As we all know, this works often enough to justify doing it and if you are a turn guy, which I am and Captain X is, you know when this is a good idea and when it’s not. All of that would have probably gone unnoticed to management, however when the station closed the door to push the aircraft, they broke something and now they were on a mechanical and it was a significant fix and a wait for parts. Based upon Captain X’s calculations, they were going to wind up flying into the morning around 5 – 6 am, and he let the station manager know at 6 pm that was not going to happen – he didn’t see himself landing anywhere 12 hours from that point in time. We don’t forecast fatigue, but essentially, when you are faced with reality of flying into the morning; one could easily assume that you could say I can’t see myself doing that.

“There was discussion about taking a [famous sports team’s] charter aircraft and letting the company replace it, which they would not. Finally the flight equipment subbed with a B737 and the passengers continued—at least that’s my understanding of the events. At this point they reassigned Captain X and his FO to ferry the broke aircraft, once fixed, to [a southern hub]. He was told the parts would arrive after midnight and the ETD would be 0200, which is when he asked his FO if he was up for that and the FO replied, “I got up early this morning with babies at home and planned on a FL turn, my answer is - I don’t think so”, at which point, Captain X said he felt the same way, so they indicated they were too fatigued to continue on the present reassignment, get them a hotel and they’ll do it in the morning. That’s what happened and the aircraft was fixed at 0145 and ferried in the morning to [southern hub], arriving within a few hours that it would have originally arrived, with a rested crew that continued home to [NE hub] via a DH.

“At this point the issue has been resolved with Captain X and the office as far as what transpired and there should not be any more issues that arise. However, Captain X and the FO have yet to be paid fully for the pairing and I’ve instructed Captain X to talk to [his ACP] and if he meets with resistance, we will roll in with a grievance and take issue with this from the moment the station manager assumed command of the aircraft. I told Captain X that fatigue calls are paid on a case by case basis and in this case it’s reasonable to assume that you set out for a simple Florida turn and all of a sudden the best staffed airline wanted you to fly all night to position an aircraft in [southern hub] and then DH back to [NE hub] at some point in your career. I told him he has the full support of the union. Once again, I think Captain X’s specific issues have been resolved, but the larger issues remain – comments about who is in command of the aircraft when it’s at the gate and if they don’t get their full pay, we’ll file a Level One grievance.”
 
Probably the same as NWA. There are CDOs on the DC-9 and A-320 fleets and can be quite popular.


There are (or were..) CDO lines here at Eagle. I think they may have nixed them.

Pilots and FAs both were bidding the line, getting the award, then dropping the CDOs. As they only valued 20 flight hours or so, you could pick up a fat 4 day trip, get paid for the whole month, and be off the rest of the month.

Er, what?

That's gaming the system and damned ridiculous. If you're going to get a month's pay, you should do a month's work. Waste like this is why management is always cracking down on us.

CDOs are unsafe, wasteful, and largely inefficient.
 
CDOs are unsafe, wasteful, and largely inefficient.

Lighten up, Francis. Plenty of us love CDOs. Stick to what you like, and leave the rest of us to do what we like.

As far as efficiency, you must not have any experience dealing in scheduling issues, because CDOs can save an airline's entire operation after a bad weather day. That's exactly why AirTran keeps them.
 
Lighten up, Francis. Plenty of us love CDOs. Stick to what you like, and leave the rest of us to do what we like.

As far as efficiency, you must not have any experience dealing in scheduling issues, because CDOs can save an airline's entire operation after a bad weather day. That's exactly why AirTran keeps them.

I dare you to call me Francis to my face.

I'm gonna give you a wedgie.

CDOs can 'save an entire airline's operation'?

I think you're being a little dramatic here.

.. and you were telling ME to lighten up. Sheesh.

Perhaps you have already received said wedgie? It seem your knickers are a bit tight. :p
 
I dare you to call me Francis to my face.

Looks like you're coming to NJC, so I'll try to remember. I don't pass up a dare! :D

CDOs can 'save an entire airline's operation'?

I think you're being a little dramatic here.

Nope. Think about it:

Really horrible weather day in Atlanta. The entire schedule is running hours and hours behind, with lots of cancellations and misconnects. You can either cancel a bunch of flights the next morning to get back on schedule, or you can keep things running behind for the next two days.....OR, if you have CDOs, everything will get itself back on schedule naturally. Why? Because the CDO crews have no minimum rest period to deal with, so when they leave hours late at 4am to go to the outstation, they can sit for just an hour or two and fly right back at the normally scheduled time. Instantly, the operation is back on schedule with no need for cancellations or rolling delays. Schedule saved!

Seriously, this is the entire reason that airlines like to run CDOs, even though CDO crews fly less than half as much as they're getting paid. The efficiency of the overall operation far exceeds the lack of efficiency of the individual crew members. We could get a 1:1 duty rig, making huge amounts of money, and AirTran would still keep the CDOs going because of the huge benefit to operational integrity. Airlines that don't have CDOs end up having to cancel a lot more flights, which causes rolling overbookings. Bad business.
 
A lot of the "CDOs" in MEM could EASILY be reduced rest overnights. Some could even be normal rest. Why aren't they? For the exact reason Todd listed. Now, if you're a reserve guy, they like to switch 'em so they can add 4 more legs on you when you get back.

I don't think CDOs are unsafe if scheduled properly. It's when you start mixing them in with other lines and flipping guys' clocks three times in a week that it gets unsafe.
 
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