Below Mins Vis. and Clear of Clouds

FriendlySkies

FriendlySkies

Well-Known Member
On an IFR plan enroute, my arrival airport reported 1/4 SM and clear of clouds on the ASOS. From 30 miles out, I could see the runways while still reporting 1/4 SM vis and clear. Can you call the airport insight and get the visual? Or do you have to wait until the ASOS reports at least 1/2 SM? Luckily, the vis. came up. I still shot the approach even though I had a visual.

What's legal and what would you do?

Thanks.
 
If you are Part 91, you can shoot the approach all day no matter what the reported visibility is.


I am not familiar with 121 ops, but Part 135 you cannot begin the instrument approach without having the required visibility. I would assume (which is a bad way to start the sentence) that if you can see the runway from 30 miles out, that you could call the airport in sight and be granted the visual approach and that you would be legal in doing so.
 
I'd be damned sure that I REALLY had the field in sight though, in that situation. You wouldn't be the first guy to land on the wrong runway/airport because of less than optimal ambient conditions.
 
Similar situation-weather machine said 1/4 vis, no clouds, airport in sight way out but we were gonna have to hold. Finally got the guy in the tower to give a tower vis report and that was that.
Up in CRW it used to kill me, a little valley fog would creep up on the machine but the rest of the field would be absolutely clear and they would not give a tower vis. so the field would basically be closed.
 
Cancel IFR, and continue in VFR, give a pirep of the field being better than IFR with fog in the vcy, and then land. As long as you're not diving for a hole over the numbers you're not going to get in trouble for this. We get conditions all the time where we get to our destination and the ASOS will be calling 1/4mi or what not, and we'll call FSS, give a pirep of the field being VFR, and land on the VFR runway if there's fog. I've seen fog sitting right over the ASOS before, and nowhere else. Remember, under VFR you only need Flight Visibility.

91.155

From 1.1
Flight Visibility means the average forward horizontal distance, from the cockpit of an aircraft in flight, at which prominent unlighted objects may be seen and identified by night.

If you're 135, and don't have dispatch that's watching you, or keeping track of you, dial up FSS on comm 2 (you do have a comm 2 right) and turn your IFR flightplan into a composite flightplan. Problem solved.
 
We went to Charleston Exec a few weeks ago. Wx was *reported* as being 1/8. We got there and it was VFR. We landed and the guys on the ground said it had been 'wacky' for weeks. ???
 
Visual? You probably won't be cleared for a visual in less than VFR wx (3sm) and you probably won't be getting a contact clearance either. Pt 91? Do the approach and land if you have the flight visibility required by the procedure.

Pt 135? Burn some gas in a hold or go elsewhere.

-mini
 
Part 135. Company policy: cannot cancel IFR until on the ground. Good thing the vis. came up for me. Didn't have to sweat it.
 
While on the subject of 135, I just had a chat about filing IFR to a VFR-only field or no wx reporting.

For operating on a VFR flight plan, 135.213 says the pilot can make the observation, but if operating IFR, you can't say it's VFR? So use a composite flight plan (can't just cancel IFR) and open the VFR part after descending to the MVA or MEA?

I had it in my head (left overs from another job) that we had to have weather reporting to go in or out of an airport.
 
deadstick said:
While on the subject of 135, I just had a chat about filing IFR to a VFR-only field or no wx reporting.

For operating on a VFR flight plan, 135.213 says the pilot can make the observation,
Click to expand...
...or operating without a VFR flight plan but operating under VFR.

but if operating IFR, you can't say it's VFR?
Click to expand...
*edit* See below.

So use a composite flight plan (can't just cancel IFR) and open the VFR part after descending to the MVA or MEA?

I had it in my head (left overs from another job) that we had to have weather reporting to go in or out of an airport.
Click to expand...
The regulation says "bla bla bla" an IFR operation to an airport without weather reporting (without the appropriate op spec approval). Now the trick becomes "define operation".

Does that mean I can't pick up a clearance and taxi at my departure airport? Does that mean I can't depart? Does it just mean I can't begin an approach (even a visual - since it's an IFR Operation)?

I've taken it to mean I can't depart IFR...so if it were me, I'd just go VFR. Either on a flight plan or not (knowing me and absent any company policy for VFR flight plan - not). Either that, or go IFR to a nearby airport with weather reporting and cancel in the air (we can do that - not prohibited by company policy) and go to the other airport VFR...when within 10 or so miles.

I've done both. I prefer (when I can) to just go VFR the whole way. Seems to save me a lot of headache.

-mini
 
deadstick said:
While on the subject of 135, I just had a chat about filing IFR to a VFR-only field or no wx reporting.

For operating on a VFR flight plan, 135.213 says the pilot can make the observation, but if operating IFR, you can't say it's VFR? So use a composite flight plan (can't just cancel IFR) and open the VFR part after descending to the MVA or MEA?

I had it in my head (left overs from another job) that we had to have weather reporting to go in or out of an airport.
Click to expand...

IFR that's exactly what you need to depart, however under VFR its all on your judgment.

IFR you can depart to an airport without weather forecasting or reporting if you're an elligible on demand operator and its approved in your opspecs.
 
ppragman said:
IFR that's exactly what you need to depart, however under VFR its all on your judgment.
Click to expand...
I thought you could use your own observation to depart but after re-reading the actual reg, it appears you are right...that's only for VFR.

Good catch.

-mini
 
Had this happen a lot in the Pac. Northwest flying 135 freight. If the ASOS is reporting below mins and WRONG, it doesn't matter. Still not legal to begin the approach unless there is a certified wx observer on the ground to say that the machine is wrong.

Without the wx observer the thing to do is to call FSS on the radio and have them NOTAM out the ASOS and then land. CYA yo!
 
Our chief pilot was stuck at an uncontrolled airport once with visibility below takeoff mins, he said he pointed his jet engine towards the weather station and blasted it with air, a minute later it greater then 6 miles visibility.
 
citabriapilot said:
Without the wx observer the thing to do is to call FSS on the radio and have them NOTAM out the ASOS and then land. CYA yo!
Click to expand...
ASOS NOTAM'd out of service wouldn't be legal either. Unless you've eligible on demand (and SP Freight is not - anything single pilot is not) you have to have weather reporting to conduct an IFR operation to an airport.


Fly_Unity said:
Our chief pilot was stuck at an uncontrolled airport once with visibility below takeoff mins, he said he pointed his jet engine towards the weather station and blasted it with air, a minute later it greater then 6 miles visibility.
Click to expand...
I've heard of guys duct taping flashlights to the RVR so it would come up above mins to depart. Both, quite creative.

-mini
 
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