Whats a new guy to do?

ahsmatt7

ahsmatt7

Well-Known Member
Last night i did a search through the forums to find more info on SJS. Most of you guys know what it stands for. I came across Zap's article which was reposted back in march of '09. Zap elaborated on the article and said that he actually wrote it in 2004 and it had a nice run as well. What i do not get is the perception of SJS. I hear and see people argue all the time on these forums about the industry and how crappy it is, or how good it COULD be. There was a "warning sign" that was said in the article which goes something like this....(paraphrased.) "Do you know a pilot who refuses to wear the uniform correctly and utters "if they want me to look better than they better pay me better." How does that mean someone has SJS? I am quite baffled by the idea and quite frankly, i don't want to fall victim to this horrid disease. It would be nice to know that as i progress through my training, i know that the route i will choose and have chosen is a respected route and a route that i will gain the REAL experience to fly in the 121 world. That also brings me to my next concern.

I hear everyone talk about 135 time as the coveted time to have prior to going in the 121 world. On the same aforementioned post, some people chimed in and said along the lines that 135 time gets you REAL IFR time along with the opportunities to actually say the word NO. Also, some people said that 135 time is the hardest flying one can do after their training. you guys paint a scary picture when talking about shooting apprs to mins and having turb. at 50' AGL. What I'm getting at here is that, form my perspective, ( a student pilot) How did you all who have flown 135 after training, know you where ready to fly that type of flying? Then if you all went to the corp. or 121 world, how did you know you where ready to fly in that type of environment? I really don't want to be that FO that sits there and say V1 like im a pilot made of gold. I wanna help the captain make decisions along with contributing to the safety of the flight and to the flight itself.

One more thing. Is it OK to have pride in one's job. whether it be 135 or 121. Is it OK to wear the uniform to SOPs or to think "Hey i got where i wanted to be so im gonna enjoy it and make this the best learning experience ever." Is that the wrong thought to have? Is it right to change those childhood dreams to goals? Meaning if i get hired by XYZ airlines and fly CRJ's, think of the job as a career and not a stepping stone?

How did you guys perceive the job as you were doing your training? For those of you who went the 135 way first, how did you know you were ready for that environment when all you had behind was training. For those who went to 121 from CFIing or 135 flying, how did you know you were ready for 121 flying?

the word ready equates to the word competent.

Its scary to think about what type of flying i will be doing in the future. It does motivate me and it does make me want to get better as a pilot don't get me wrong. It's overwhelming yet exciting. I guess that since im working on my PPL right now and the only type of flying ive done is VFR may have alot to do with the apprehension.


So that being said I would like some clarification on this SJS and some insight to the other questions asked.

-matt
 
I say don't fall to the negative side of life. Stay positive! Wear your uniform to the highest standards. Apply the highest "customer appreciation/satisfaction" standards (treat everyone as a customer that MUST be pleased) to every single person you come into contact with. People will notice.

When you look at a CEO you don't see a guy muttering that phrase "if they want me to look better than they better pay me better!" please don't comment about the pay, the comment wasn't about the pay, it was about the position and the attitude that the CEO probably had when he started in the mail room.

When I worked the line at an FBO I wore my uniform to the standards of the job. I helped every Pilot, passenger, and co-worker as much as I was capable. I got some great tips from crews and Pax every time I approached an airplane with the right attitude. When a single pilot Citation or a two pilot Gulfstream rolled onto the ramp I never saw a Pilot that looked like they had that attitude of "pay me better" whether they had been flying 2-8 years or 12-16 years and beyond.

I know there are some high standard 121 CRJ/ERJ/Saab/Do/J42 pilots out there. I know there are some "pay me better" pilots out there. I have a pretty good idea which ones will move forward faster. Not by kissing ass, unless you see that working hard and keeping an appearance up to standard are kissing ass, but by doing what needs to be done, when it needs to be done.

It sounds like you have the right attitude. Pay attention to the job you have NOW. If you don't get paid enough.....do something about it. We as pilots have worked hard to gain the experience we have. We are sometimes very unwilling to give up what we see as a tenuous hold on a job that we love. Meaning that sometimes we will fly for pennies because those pennies keep us just that much above drowning long enough to move to the next job and make a little more money. Start your career with the right attitude! If you get a job as a Flight Instructor, look at it like you said.."think of the job as a career and not a stepping stone." Then you will, hopefully, focus and bring value to your students. Then when you go that 135, or later 121, interview "think of the job as a career and not a stepping stone."

I say yes, it is OK to have pride in your uniform. It just so happens that right now my uniform is khaki shorts and a three button collared shirt and sneakers.

When will you know you are ready? You will know. Only you can be the judge of your experience level. Have balance in your attempts at the next step. For example, once you have your IR don't assume that because you flew an ILS to simulated mins 100 times that you can now do it just fine after having flown to 600 foot mins 5 or 6 times.

Make plans for the future but be sure to pay attention to what you are doing right now. You won't go from crap slinger to shiny shoe attendant by staring at the shiny shoes all the time. I think you have the right attitude already. Just keep it positive and you will be fine.

I hope that I have skirted the issue of "pay me what i'm worth" as well as I avoided that thunderstorm in Atlanta last week. IF not, then I would take this opportunity to request an icon with a combat helmet and a flak jacket.
 
I say SJS is not a desirable "syndrome" right now because of scope, pay, and overall QOL. SJS has always and will always exist. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a corporate pilot. My dad tried to turn me away from it, because he is a corporate pilot. When I was a new private pilot, I really wanted to get to the airlines as fast as I could. Over the years, I've learned what I like about flying and though I still like jets and stuff, I wouldn't call flying a non-jet a deal breaker for me, anymore.

I don't look down on people with SJS. It's quite normal and those who have it will figure things out in time. Everybody heads down their own path, though. The belief that SJS will bring in a mass of new pilot "locusts", who will bring down the industry is just alarmist in nature. The reality of the industry is contained in history, which I'm not going to get into because it would be a long post and probably prolong the thread.

Don't worry, you'll be fine! :)
 
ahsmatt7 said:
Also, some people said that 135 time is the hardest flying one can do after their training. you guys paint a scary picture when talking about shooting apprs to mins and having turb. at 50' AGL.
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One thing about freight, you will learn that there is a large difference between "unpleasant" vs "unsafe".

Passenger airlines try VERY hard to stay out of the unpleasant catagory strictly for passenger comfort. Since "boxes don't bitch" we'll deal with being uncomfortable if it means getting the job done, as long as we don't streach into the "unsafe" catagory.

What I'm getting at here is that, form my perspective, ( a student pilot) How did you all who have flown 135 after training, know you where ready to fly that type of flying?
Click to expand...

First, you're never ready.

However, you should be confident in your basic ability to fly the airplane in all circumstances. At the time I started in the Caravan, 121 airlines were putting 400 hour pilots in jets. I wasn't sure I could make that leap. I was sure I could handle the 208, while I mastered real world IFR operations.
 
Sorry, I htink I left my soapbox in here. I got into a "discussion" with someone at work a few days ago and I this triggered flashbacks!

I apologize to the OP.
 
falconvalley said:
I say SJS is not a desirable "syndrome" right now because of scope, pay, and overall QOL. SJS has always and will always exist. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a corporate pilot. My dad tried to turn me away from it, because he is a corporate pilot. When I was a new private pilot, I really wanted to get to the airlines as fast as I could. Over the years, I've learned what I like about flying and though I still like jets and stuff, I wouldn't call flying a non-jet a deal breaker for me, anymore.

I don't look down on people with SJS. It's quite normal and those who have it will figure things out in time. Everybody heads down their own path, though. The belief that SJS will bring in a mass of new pilot "locusts", who will bring down the industry is just alarmist in nature. The reality of the industry is contained in history, which I'm not going to get into because it would be a long post and probably prolong the thread.

Don't worry, you'll be fine! :)
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind words. Was your path to where you currently are a rewarding one or one filled with things you'd rather not remember?
 
USMCmech said:
One thing about freight, you will learn that there is a large difference between "unpleasant" vs "unsafe".

Passenger airlines try VERY hard to stay out of the unpleasant catagory strictly for passenger comfort. Since "boxes don't bitch" we'll deal with being uncomfortable if it means getting the job done, as long as we don't streach into the "unsafe" catagory.



First, you're never ready.

However, you should be confident in your basic ability to fly the airplane in all circumstances. At the time I started in the Caravan, 121 airlines were putting 400 hour pilots in jets. I wasn't sure I could make that leap. I was sure I could handle the 208, while I mastered real world IFR operations.
Click to expand...

Is 135 specifically frieght only ops? Were you really nervous when you started your first flying job?
 
surreal1221 said:
Cliff notes please!
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I was thinking the same thing :laff:

For me, I used to have SJS as most young, aspiring students have although I had no idea this was a condition, I just thought it was how you were supposed to think. Then as I went through my training, I though that I didn't want to fly airliners, too normal, I wanna fly the cool private jets. Still in SJS.

Then I started flying aerobatics on MSFS and I started to really dig that. I then went up in an aerobatic plane, and from then have totally lost my SJS. I have now starting basing my training towards learning how to be a successful aerobatics pilot on the airshow circuit and plan to do this as at the least a side job for the rest of my life.

I say all this as if I'm a guy who has lived and learned it, but I'm only 17 and am waiting for funds to allow me to get my PPL, so I am by no means one of the really "experienced" types. But what I am, is somebody who realized what his niche of aviation was and couldn't be happier with it.

I think we all at some point have SJS, and for some that is their path. For others, they start off with SJS, then realize that a different type of aviation is truly what they love and they stick with that.

I'm not sure if this was to the OP, but its just my feeling on SJS. Hope it helps, or was insightful in someway! :)
 
Most of the people that complain in the industry are the broke grumpy married pilots.....The few who don't complain are the ones who love the lifestyle and the perks of being a professional pilot...Just make sure you know what your getting into.
 
What's a new guy to do??? Put one foot in front of the other. Finish your private certificate, continue in college... Drink a beer or ten, and don't pay to much attention to what a guy who post under a cartoon alias has to say about today's youth. And I ain't saying he is a bad guy.

good luck:D
 
all the advice is greatly appriciated. I got a little overwhelmed and you guys helped calm me down. Thanks!
 
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