route of flight question

bksslc

Well-Known Member
I'm planning a flight to North Las Vegas from SLC tomorrow. Most the flight will be along V21 from TCH VORTAC to MMM VOR before taking V394 to the IAF. My question is, when filing and filling in box 8 on the flight plan form can i just put TCH V21 MMM. Or do i need to put TCH V21 FFU V21 DTA V21 etc...?
 
Without looking at the route, you can file the Victor all the way as long as your route is the Victor. No need to add any fixes all ATC cares about is the route.
 
You don't even need to do that. To take what you are proposing to the extreme, we generally just file direct to the destination field (even up in Class A airspace). In this modern age of GPS, RNAV, etc, V and J airways are sort of getting outdated. Certainly if that is your only means of navigation, then by all means, but if you can either use some other means of primary nav (legally) or if you can just file direct between navaids, that can sometimes cut down some extraneous routing like the feeder airway you are talking about; of course in busier areas ATC will do with you as it wants. so keep that in mind. I guess having TACAN capability has spoiled me to some extent (you can file between two stations up to 260 NM apart), but there are lots of low level VOR's as well and many routes I used to fly could easily have been airport to airport direct.
 
You don't even need to do that. To take what you are proposing to the extreme, we generally just file direct to the destination field (even up in Class A airspace).
True.

But some of us like to have a chance of actually getting the filed route as a clearance, which makes copying the clearance so much easier. So we go to the opposite extreme of looking at sites like flightaware.com or fltplan.com and file routes like those that have been issued for real.
 
True.

But some of us like to have a chance of actually getting the filed route as a clearance, which makes copying the clearance so much easier. So we go to the opposite extreme of looking at sites like flightaware.com or fltplan.com and file routes like those that have been issued for real.
Yes.

I like to have it programmed before the FO calls for clearance. He kinda struggles with copying it all down if they spit it out fast. "As Filed" is just so much easier.

-mini
 
True.

But some of us like to have a chance of actually getting the filed route as a clearance, which makes copying the clearance so much easier. So we go to the opposite extreme of looking at sites like flightaware.com or fltplan.com and file routes like those that have been issued for real.

A valid point and you obviously have to weigh the situation to see if filing direct is worthwhile.
 
A valid point and you obviously have to weigh the situation to see if filing direct is worthwhile.
Also true. There's no worse feeling than having the pax loaded, get one turning and call clearance only to hear "uh...we don't do direct, you need to go re-file".

-mini
 
from ATC point of view

Filing direct is a real quick way to get yourself "Number Last" on the Clearance Delivery priority list when they are busy.

But as for the original question the first answer was good. We'd even prefer the V route without all the intermediate fixes it neater on the strips.
 
from ATC point of view

Filing direct is a real quick way to get yourself "Number Last" on the Clearance Delivery priority list when they are busy.
Follow-up for you ATC types.

I was under the impression that the computer gives you a route to give us whether we file it or not. If you don't do directs out of your airport (*ahemmidwayahem*), then doesn't the computer print out a strip for us with the route on it anyway?

What's the scoop?

-mini
 
You don't even need to do that. To take what you are proposing to the extreme, we generally just file direct to the destination field (even up in Class A airspace). In this modern age of GPS, RNAV, etc, V and J airways are sort of getting outdated. Certainly if that is your only means of navigation, then by all means, but if you can either use some other means of primary nav (legally) or if you can just file direct between navaids, that can sometimes cut down some extraneous routing like the feeder airway you are talking about; of course in busier areas ATC will do with you as it wants. so keep that in mind. I guess having TACAN capability has spoiled me to some extent (you can file between two stations up to 260 NM apart), but there are lots of low level VOR's as well and many routes I used to fly could easily have been airport to airport direct.

That can work under IFR, but what about a VFR flgiht plan? That is some pretty empty area between Vegas and SLC. If something happens even few miles off of a direct course can be problematic for SAR.
 
That can work under IFR, but what about a VFR flgiht plan? That is some pretty empty area between Vegas and SLC. If something happens even few miles off of a direct course can be problematic for SAR.

Well if all you are worried about is SAR, then you can file whatever you want VFR. You could file figure 8's around SLC if you really wanted.

For IFR plans, if I can't get direct, I prefer at LEAST filing to an airport rather than an IAF since if I go nordo, I can pretty much do what I was going to do anyway and head to an IAF that makes sense.
 
Follow-up for you ATC types.

I was under the impression that the computer gives you a route to give us whether we file it or not. If you don't do directs out of your airport (*ahemmidwayahem*), then doesn't the computer print out a strip for us with the route on it anyway?

What's the scoop?

-mini

for certain routes between airports the computer will give "Pref. Routes" but not always. And sometimes those pref routes are wrong. They don't take into consideration the Letters of Agreements with other facilities or whatever. But I will tell you if Pilot A makes an effort to file a real route and it takes me 10 mins to fix, and Pilot B files direct and it takes me 2 mins to fix. Pilot A is always number one in my book because they at least made an effort so B is now going to wait 12 minutes for their laziness. Then again this may be different out in the wide open west. I work in the extremely congested northeast corridor, so with extremely few exceptions, (IE satellite-to-hub within 25 miles because it is going to be all vectors anyways), direct isn't going to work and pilots, if they have flown in the area at all should know this.
 
That can work under IFR, but what about a VFR flgiht plan? That is some pretty empty area between Vegas and SLC. If something happens even few miles off of a direct course can be problematic for SAR.
Different purpose, different issue. One is mandatory and has workload reduction and lost communications as purposes. The other is optional and has SAR as it's sole purpose.

If you are going to rely on a VFR flight plan for SAR between Vegas and SLC, never mind the intermediate waypoints. You'd be much better served with periodic position reports to Flight Service.
 
for certain routes between airports the computer will give "Pref. Routes" but not always. And sometimes those pref routes are wrong. They don't take into consideration the Letters of Agreements with other facilities or whatever. But I will tell you if Pilot A makes an effort to file a real route and it takes me 10 mins to fix, and Pilot B files direct and it takes me 2 mins to fix. Pilot A is always number one in my book because they at least made an effort so B is now going to wait 12 minutes for their laziness. Then again this may be different out in the wide open west. I work in the extremely congested northeast corridor, so with extremely few exceptions, (IE satellite-to-hub within 25 miles because it is going to be all vectors anyways), direct isn't going to work and pilots, if they have flown in the area at all should know this.

Thanks for the info! Good to know!

-mini
 
But as for the original question the first answer was good. We'd even prefer the V route without all the intermediate fixes it neater on the strips.[/QUOTE]



Thats how i ended up filing. I figured as long as it was one V route the fixes along that route were kind of a given.

And excuse my ignorance, but what does SAR mean?
 
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