Seneca Single Engine Approach Question

MikeOH58

MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
I just started flying a Seneca IV, and i'll be taking a .293/297 checkride in the aircraft soon...On the checkride I will be asked to demonstrate single engine approaches...

The POH/AFM says "when landing is assured, extend the landing gear and lower the flaps as required". Now how does this translate into shooting approaches? Being Part 23, I am not guaranteed any climb performance, and what comes to mind in a non precision approach where I get to MDA prior to the VDP.

Would you configure gear/flaps prior to FAF, or hold off until runway is in sight?
 
Landing is not assured prior to FAF... It probably means runway in sight, and normal descent rate to a landing.
 
That's what I was thinking...So what would you do? 95% of my multi engine time is in King Air's where there is more than enough power to configure prior, and treat it as a normal approach as much as possible...

Realistically, if i'm flying a seneca single engine, i'm flying as far as I need to do an approach where I know i'm getting in...For the most part a go-around isn't really an option...

That said, how would you do this on a checkride with the feds? I don't think they would be very pleased with configuration changes inside the FAF, let alone at DH/MDA
 
MikeOH58 said:
I just started flying a Seneca IV, and i'll be taking a .293/297 checkride in the aircraft soon...On the checkride I will be asked to demonstrate single engine approaches...

The POH/AFM says "when landing is assured, extend the landing gear and lower the flaps as required". Now how does this translate into shooting approaches? Being Part 23, I am not guaranteed any climb performance, and what comes to mind in a non precision approach where I get to MDA prior to the VDP.

Would you configure gear/flaps prior to FAF, or hold off until runway is in sight?
Click to expand...

I'd probably say that if I'm shooting a single engine approach in the seneca at max gross on a hot day that I'm not going to go missed, so to put it this way, wait on the gear until you can make the field with the gear down. If that's at the FAF, then that's at the FAF, otherwise wait on it. There is no clear cut answer, because if you lose a motor in cruise, you've lost it up high, with time to think, if you lose a motor after taking off zero-zero, or low vis, you're probably going to crash before you get back around on approach if your SEService Cx is below field elevation density altitude, and if you lose it on approach you're going to want as to maintain at least blueline until the last second anyway.

The only thing I can say is make sure you have the gear down by 500AGL, otherwise, don't put em' down. If you can maintain speed and altitude with em up, might as well not put them down at all. But that's real world. For the checkride, I'd say before 500AGL, or Descent from MDA whichever is lower. But I haven't flown twins in awhile, so again, take this with a grain of salt.
 
MikeOH58 said:
That's what I was thinking...So what would you do? 95% of my multi engine time is in King Air's where there is more than enough power to configure prior, and treat it as a normal approach as much as possible...

Realistically, if i'm flying a seneca single engine, i'm flying as far as I need to do an approach where I know i'm getting in...For the most part a go-around isn't really an option...

That said, how would you do this on a checkride with the feds? I don't think they would be very pleased with configuration changes inside the FAF, let alone at DH/MDA
Click to expand...

Brief the fed on what you're going to do. If you're going to hold off on the gear, make sure he knows about it.
 
If the operating manual says do it a particular way, do it that way. Brief the fed first. Just my opinion :) But it's easy to overthink it... just do what the book says!
 
This tends to work well for piston twins---

On an ILS or LPV extend at FAF just like normal and the descent should keep you around blue line. You'll probably have to keep the flaps up, and if you're at blue line and getting below the glide slope due to weight or weather then get the gear up and lower it when the runway is in sight. If you have brought it up don't forget to put it back down, and if you have very low ceilings or vis near minimums your best bet is to find someplace else to go.

On a circling or non precision approach where you expect to level off at the MDA leave it up until leaving MDA, you won't be able to maintain level flight with it down. Again, don't forget to lower the gear leaving MDA.

Both of these approaches can have the gear up after your typical time for the before landing checklist, and higher than normal workload due to the engine failure, hence the reminder to check it down when you head for the runway visually.
 
MikeOH58 said:
I just started flying a Seneca IV, and i'll be taking a .293/297 checkride in the aircraft soon...On the checkride I will be asked to demonstrate single engine approaches...

The POH/AFM says "when landing is assured, extend the landing gear and lower the flaps as required". Now how does this translate into shooting approaches? Being Part 23, I am not guaranteed any climb performance, and what comes to mind in a non precision approach where I get to MDA prior to the VDP.

Would you configure gear/flaps prior to FAF, or hold off until runway is in sight?
Click to expand...

Gear down at normal time, no flaps till runway assured. Seneca has enough on one engine to hold MDA with the gear down.
 
Polymox said:
This tends to work well for piston twins---

On an ILS or LPV extend at FAF just like normal and the descent should keep you around blue line. You'll probably have to keep the flaps up, and if you're at blue line and getting below the glide slope due to weight or weather then get the gear up and lower it when the runway is in sight. If you have brought it up don't forget to put it back down, and if you have very low ceilings or vis near minimums your best bet is to find someplace else to go.

On a circling or non precision approach where you expect to level off at the MDA leave it up until leaving MDA, you won't be able to maintain level flight with it down. Again, don't forget to lower the gear leaving MDA.

Both of these approaches can have the gear up after your typical time for the before landing checklist, and higher than normal workload due to the engine failure, hence the reminder to check it down when you head for the runway visually.
Click to expand...


:yeahthat:
We are trained to pretty much that at my multi gig.
 
Going along with what the others have stated, putting the gear down at the FAF should be fine. I would hold on the flaps, and then put the flaps down when the runway is in sight.
 
If the approach offers vertical guidance (ILS, LPV, etc) then I would drop the gear and fly at FAF and fly a no flap approach. If the approach does not offer vertical guidance, then I would keep the gear up, and lower it when descending from MDA.
 
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