Seriously, do you not realize I am not listening to you?

So I just got off the phone with our mechanic, who's input I actually trust. He used to own the same year 210 and has about 10,000 hours flying them; and God only knows how many hours fixing them. He said that there are knobs on the door post that correspond with indentations in the door frame that are actually holding the door on when latched. When closed and latched the hinges are bearing no load at all.

So I could have safely gone.

I still think I made the right decision based on what I knew at the time. He said he would have made the exact same decision if he didn't know that about the door frame. But now we know, so if this ever happens again, better prepared.
 
bdhill1979 said:
I still think I made the right decision based on what I knew at the time. He said he would have made the exact same decision if he didn't know that about the door frame. But now we know, so if this ever happens again, better prepared.
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Like Stephen Colbert says, follow your gut. ;) Still think you made the right move since something just didn't feel "right" to you.
 
bdhill1979 said:
So I just got off the phone with our mechanic, who's input I actually trust. He used to own the same year 210 and has about 10,000 hours flying them; and God only knows how many hours fixing them. He said that there are knobs on the door post that correspond with indentations in the door frame that are actually holding the door on when latched. When closed and latched the hinges are bearing no load at all.

So I could have safely gone.

I still think I made the right decision based on what I knew at the time. He said he would have made the exact same decision if he didn't know that about the door frame. But now we know, so if this ever happens again, better prepared.
Click to expand...

Obviously "that guy" knew enough about the 210 to know that. After all, that's why he suggested you tape it shut. What a d-bag.
 
Isn't it a question of airworthiness at that point? I mean I know it might not be a big problem even if it stays shut but if it doesn't look like what it did when it came out of the factory (in a mechanical fashion), its not airworthy and thus not flyable. Any thoughts?
 
Always better to have found out you could than assume you can and find out the hard way you can't.

PIC decision making should generally err on the conservative side IMO. Especially when you're flying passengers or other people's aircrafts.
 
cool92092 said:
Isn't it a question of airworthiness at that point? I mean I know it might not be a big problem even if it stays shut but if it doesn't look like what it did when it came out of the factory (in a mechanical fashion), its not airworthy and thus not flyable. Any thoughts?
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Word. I don't think you can MEL a door hinge.

You'd probably need a special flight permit to be paperwork legal and I don't know that you'd get one authorizing you to carry pax on the flight.

Good call.

-mini
 
minitour said:
Word. I don't think you can MEL a door hinge.
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It depends on what the FAA approved in their MEL guide.

bdhill1979 said:
We are on our way out the door, he is still saying we should just tape it and go.
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I have a lot of respect for you and zero respect for him. It's one thing for a fellow crew member to have gethomeitis and advocate "tape it and go" but for a fellow pilot to give questionable advice on a fight he isn't traveling is very poor judgment.

I'm unsure about the Part 91 procedures on something like this, but it seems to me having a mechanic certify it safe for flight, taped or not, would fulfill the regulations on this problem. If a pilot still felt uncomfortable flying the aircraft, then I'd fully support their decision.
 
I would assume that a prt 91 operator flying a 210 wouldn't have an approved mel, nef or dmi procedure. At that point the only legal way to operate the aircraft would be to remove it( if it's not listed as a required item in the poh/arm) or fill out a special ferry permit.

Generaly a ferry will only be approved to carry the pilots, but perhaps you could get one with a safety pilot or owner on it. If he has all those types, I guess he didn't pay much attention when he was getting them.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
I would assume that a prt 91 operator flying a 210 wouldn't have an approved mel, nef or dmi procedure. At that point the only legal way to operate the aircraft would be to remove it( if it's not listed as a required item in the poh/arm) or fill out a special ferry permit.
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True, though I've seen several 91 ops in small stuff utilizing an LOA/MEL.

Anyway...anyone know if the door hinge and/or door is on the equipment list in the AFM on the 210? I'm just not that familiar with them.

Either way, man...you made the right call. Bravo for sticking to it in the face of this female genitalia irrigation sack.

-mini
 
blaise723 said:
Always better to have found out you could than assume you can and find out the hard way you can't.

PIC decision making should generally err on the conservative side IMO. Especially when you're flying passengers or other people's aircrafts.
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:yeahthat:
 
bdhill1979 said:
So today my boss opened the door on the 210 in high winds and damn near got it ripped off, snapped the door hinge right off. The door would close and latch, but it wasn't a perfect fit.
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Seriously....you need to always bring duct tape so that you can tape your bosses hands to his feet.
 
bdhill1979 said:
So I just got off the phone with our mechanic, who's input I actually trust. He used to own the same year 210 and has about 10,000 hours flying them; and God only knows how many hours fixing them. He said that there are knobs on the door post that correspond with indentations in the door frame that are actually holding the door on when latched. When closed and latched the hinges are bearing no load at all.

So I could have safely gone.

I still think I made the right decision based on what I knew at the time. He said he would have made the exact same decision if he didn't know that about the door frame. But now we know, so if this ever happens again, better prepared.
Click to expand...



Yeah, maybe you COULD have "safely" flown. Funny thing about the FAA...they like airplanes to be operated with parts that are in the same general condition and location that they were in when they left the factory. So theoretically, while you could have flown, they could have also decided after the fact that you should have done so on a ferry permit. And as PIC, you did not excercise due diligence. Funny how they draw conclusions.

Conclusions that cost YOU money to defend your actions upon.

You were the PIC. You made the right call. Period.

That dbag with all the answers is a prime example of what kills people.

The last place you ever want to be is in front of a hearing board answering, "So...tell us why you chose to do ______, knowing that you had _______."

The only thing worse is having people attend the graveside service. You can bet your backside no one will be saying, "What a guy. He knew there was a problem but flew anyway to make the boss happy."

Congrats. You just learned a valuable lesson and did it the right way!
 
727to7400 said:
Yeah, maybe you COULD have "safely" flown. Funny thing about the FAA...they like airplanes to be operated with parts that are in the same general condition and location that they were in when they left the factory. So theoretically, while you could have flown, they could have also decided after the fact that you should have done so on a ferry permit. And as PIC, you did not excercise due diligence. Funny how they draw conclusions.

Conclusions that cost YOU money to defend your actions upon.

You were the PIC. You made the right call. Period.

That dbag with all the answers is a prime example of what kills people.

The last place you ever want to be is in front of a hearing board answering, "So...tell us why you chose to do ______, knowing that you had _______."

The only thing worse is having people attend the graveside service. You can bet your backside no one will be saying, "What a guy. He knew there was a problem but flew anyway to make the boss happy."

Congrats. You just learned a valuable lesson and did it the right way!
Click to expand...
Exactly why we waited till yesterday to fly it home, after a mechanic had replaced it.
 
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