A curiousity, if I may...

A

AnImbroglio

Well-Known Member
Ok, here's the story. I'm going to OKC on Sept 25th. I've been selected for ZJX, or Jacksonville Center, for those not up on their acronyms. I have a 100 on my AT-SAT (not that that really counts for much), and I am CTI, and I have a CTO license for a tower.

My question, then, is this: What would be the odds that I don't wash out when I go to ZJX? I understand that it's a level 12 ARTCC, and I understand that there is typically a pretty high wash out rate. But I'm not exactly unprepared (or at least, god, I hope I'm not), but I am still quite nervous about it. I've read enough of this forum to know my best bet is to keep my head down and mouth shut, learn all I can, and give it my best. And that I plan to do. But realistically, what, exactly, am I looking at here?

Thanks for any advice in advance...
 
I am of the mindset that most of the people around here that talk about high washout rates at centers are just jealous that they aren't going to a center. No one has any solid evidence such as reports, and no one from any center has stepped up and said that any number of people failed out while they were there. I have zero experience and I am not worried in the least, of course I don't have a class date either.

I was originally slated to go the traditional hiring route, and I interviewed at my facility. I was told by their human resource manager that most people there CPC, and those that don't usually are placed at a lower level TRACON or Terminal. I was also told that average time to CPC was 3 years at ZNY and that some take as long as 4 and some as few as 2.
 
I don't know why a washout rate at an ARTCC would be any higher or lower than at a TRACON/RAPCON.....in fact, the TRACON/RAPCON seems to me to be busier, generally speaking.

Personally, I think THIS would be the funnest to work.......old school dusty airfield with little traffic:
 

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I don't know ZJX so I can't speak specifically to it, but... Centers are geared toward people who have no experience (I know you have a CTO but the ARTCC world has very little in comon with local and ground) because traditionally you go to a center and stay in that option. That and you have many more OJT hours and the area is broken up further. You learn A sides, then D side for each sector then you learn the R side or radar stuff after you're checked out on all D sides. Terminal traditionally you started at a small tower and worked your way up as you built up your ability. They don't do it like that now and many people with no chance are getting thrown to the wolves at high level terminal facilities that still give training hours based on the assumption that you've been working traffic at worst 2 or 3 levels lower for a while. Your chances at a level 12 center are far far far greater then that at a level 12 approach say a Chicago or Atlanta. Centers normally take from 3 to 5 years to check out in. You don't get that kind of time in terminal. I would be interested to know if an OTS could check out at say A80 if they were given 5 years to train, but you'd be better off starting at say a 7,progressing to a 10 and then trying your hand at a 12 in terminal.

My advice is crack open the .65 and read up on things pertaining to non radar, use of long range radar and what cool seperation you can't use enroute that you could use in terminal and know what altimeter settings eliminate the use of each flight level. And oh the other big thing. Learn enroute strips, strip markings and the difference in red and black and make dang sure you're nice and comfy with them. You'll learn it in OKC, but anything you know prior to getting there is a bonus.

You've learned the most important thing though by cruising here. Head down, mouth shut, work harder than anyone else and don't be affraid to ask questions
 
genot said:
You've learned the most important thing though by cruising here. Head down, mouth shut, work harder than anyone else and don't be affraid to ask questions
Click to expand...

Otherwise, you'll be demoted to ATIS recorder as your sole duty......

:D
 
MikeD said:
I don't know why a washout rate at an ARTCC would be any higher or lower than at a TRACON/RAPCON.....in fact, the TRACON/RAPCON seems to me to be busier, generally speaking.

Personally, I think THIS would be the funnest to work.......old school dusty airfield with little traffic:
Click to expand...

"Upset Ninah ninah shoogah, cleared for ovah-head TWO sevumty.
 
I'm currently in the academy and am headed to ZJX. It is a level 11 facility, just to let you know. We (my class) had a meet and greet where a bunch of facility supervisors showed up and answered questions. The operations manager that showed up for ZJX told myself, and the other person going to ZJX in my class, that about 1 in every 6 or 7 don't make it past radar training.

And I wouldn't be nervous about coming to the academy. They teach you everything you need to know. And even if you are CTI (which I am as well) they will teach the class from scratch (for lack of a better term) and let you know what you need to.
 
MikeD said:
I don't know why a washout rate at an ARTCC would be any higher or lower than at a TRACON/RAPCON.....in fact, the TRACON/RAPCON seems to me to be busier, generally speaking.

Personally, I think THIS would be the funnest to work.......old school dusty airfield with little traffic:
Click to expand...

This one appealed to me... one runway... one parking spot... one laid-back workday...

IMG_3736_2.jpg


AYQ, Connellan Airport
 
I think I would die of boredom, no doubt that is a contract tower anyway, maybe you can spend your retirement there :laff:
 
Looks like something you'd see in your back yard for your kids to play in..

Edit: 400,000 pax annually?? WTF!
 
ATC RET 2003 said:
This one appealed to me... one runway... one parking spot... one laid-back workday...

AYQ, Connellan Airport
Click to expand...

Very nice!

Not everything ATC has to be a remake of Pushing Tin......

Kind of how wannabe regional airline pilots are SJSers (Shiny Jet Syndrome), there are a number of wannabe ATC who are SFSers (Shiny Facility Syndrome) :D
 
greg1016 said:
I think I would die of boredom, no doubt that is a contract tower anyway, maybe you can spend your retirement there :laff:
Click to expand...

Here lately I can handle boredom WAY better than I used to be able to. :D

swinte00 said:
Looks like something you'd see in your back yard for your kids to play in..

Edit: 400,000 pax annually?? WTF!
Click to expand...

Although there are many other things to do, most folks come to see this...

IMG_3804.jpg


do this...

IMG_3792.jpg




MikeD said:
Very nice!

Not everything ATC has to be a remake of Pushing Tin......

Kind of how wannabe regional airline pilots are SJSers (Shiny Jet Syndrome), there are a number of wannabe ATC who are SFSers (Shiny Facility Syndrome) :D
Click to expand...

Amen! :bandit:
 
ATC RET 2003 said:
This one appealed to me... one runway... one parking spot... one laid-back workday...

IMG_3736_2.jpg


AYQ, Connellan Airport
Click to expand...

Or How bout this "tower" FARP LZ in the sandbox. I had a blast doing this kind of controlling. Something 99% of the controlling community never gets to experience.

l_3f7c5fc7eb516a2de67de8b4fcc7f93e.jpg
 
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