Crossing restrictions

surreal1221 said:
Link to the data.

Thanks.
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I can't cite exact numbers (internal company information), but altitude deviations are our highest pilot "whoops." Using the point-and-shoot method, coupled with prospective memory cues, is something big we stress in CRM training.
 
FlyChicaga said:
I can't cite exact numbers (internal company information), but altitude deviations are our highest pilot "whoops." Using the point-and-shoot method, coupled with prospective memory cues, is something big we stress in CRM training.
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Here's our "MOST WANTED"

- Altitude Deviations (crossing restrictions, including those on STARS)
- FMS Misprogramming (garbage in, garbage out)
- MEL/CDL Misinterpretation/Noncompliance


Infrequent but noteworthy: altimeter settings descending through FL180 in low pressure systems (30.14 instead of 29.14).
 
C150J said:
Here's our "MOST WANTED"

- Altitude Deviations (crossing restrictions, including those on STARS)
- FMS Misprogramming (garbage in, garbage out)
- MEL/CDL Misinterpretation/Noncompliance


Infrequent but noteworthy: altimeter settings descending through FL180 in low pressure systems (30.14 instead of 29.14).
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Wow, that's the same 3 I remember in about every ASAP meeting.

I'll bet you work at a different company than FlyChicaga too.
 
Polar742 said:
Wow, that's the same 3 I remember in about every ASAP meeting.

I'll bet you work at a different company than FlyChicaga too.
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You'd bet right!

Complacency and/or inexeperience seem to have strong overtones in all these cases. I would also propose to you that there is a tremendously strong, statistically significant correlation between unintentional complacency and fatigue.
 
C150J said:
You'd bet right!

Complacency and/or inexeperience seem to have strong overtones in all these cases. I would also propose to you that there is a tremendously strong, statistically significant correlation between unintentional complacency and fatigue.
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I would agree to a certain extent.

We were flying pretty easy days for the most part, 2-3 legs (there were a few 4-5 leg days, but they were few and far between at that point) and you usually had 10-12 hours of rest, so I can't comment on the fatigue portion. I can't say I really ever felt tired on our schedules. I never had a day/night swap that didn't have a decent rest period to it that I recall. (For the haters: There was still plenty of company led buffoonery to make me melt sometimes. It involved rapid expansion, not enough crews and schedulers that really had no training. :mad::crazy::argue::whip::chair::banghead:)

However, when we bought the MDA airplanes, the pilots came too. We saw many of the same mistakes from high-time pilots that are inexperienced in the specific type, or had high SIC time (think 10k+) and extraordinarily low PIC time, or both, yet saw the same trends.

I think the general trend I was seeing was the complacency towards the glass. The plane did EXACTLY what you told it, and there were plenty of instances where that seemed to translate into "it would fix your mistakes" leading to complacency when setting altitudes or programming the box.
 
Just outta curiosity, what happened, wheelsup? Also, i know there are ppl alot smarter than me establishing these procedures, but aren't some stars and their crossing restrictions super inefficient? For example, the Jakie into CVG...why are jets crossing at ~13,000ft 40 miles out only for a 10,000 ft downwind and a slam dunk and then there's no one around you when you land? Or even ATL..i understand the speed restrictions 40 miles out for approach, for sequencing but why does ATC have jets start down so early when you could stay up higher longer, come down at flight idle, save a ton of gas, cross 40 miles out at oh, say FL200(just a guess), still have plenty of time to make that 10,000ft downwind...can someone enlighten me?
 
CRJ ERJ DC9 makes since because with the rjs you don't have a coupled autothrottle VNAV system, so its a bit easier to forget or misjudge. Polars 170 didn't use VNAV but they do now. At least now if u bust in a EJet there is a chain of mistakes and missed alerts
 
Remember to file an ASAP. This is the most common ASAP event reported, and they're almost always handled with "letters of no action," meaning nothing happens to you, even if it wasn't a sole-source report.
 
zmiller4 said:
I've never filed a NASA when I've been able to file an ASAP. I guess some folks do both...is there a good reason to?
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Yes. If your company has an ASAP, the ASAP committee has to agree to enter the error into the program.

With the NASA, the FAA can not enact a sanction. ie.. if they choose they may file a violation but you won't get spanked.
 
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