Colgan 18 hour days ???

[wheelsup]

You know it is really kinda ironic, but, right before US air in the hudson, 3407, Air france, Yemen started... there was a Times article talking about how there had not been a single US air carrier fatality in 2 years... since Lex.

I think that happened 2 days before a couple of geese turned an A320 into a party boat. The day you say ,"look at how safe we are", is the day something happens.

I wonder how the news media would spin the fact that the 2 deadliest commercial aviation events, Tenerife and 9/11, were all "major" airlines. Heck, the KLM captain was one of the most experienced pilots KLM had.


I am by no means saying AWAC is unsafe, or that any of you are unsafe... just seems that Hunter Fate likes to aim for those who boast of beating her.

Absolutely. I could eat crow tomorrow, or next week, or next month. I sure as hell hope not, but I agree it could happen.

I'm not really sure how you are classifying 9/11 as the same thing as screwing up and killing people.

 

[Firebird2XC]

It would seem that many of the corporate policies made about fatigue are a bit of a joke, but at least we've got them moving in that direction.

Here at the Eagle, it's common knowledge that the company is okay with a captain *informing* CS that their crew will get eight hours behind the door, and it starts at that point.

The trend, however voluntary, finally seems to be gradually moving our way.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Absolutely. I could eat crow tomorrow, or next week, or next month. I sure as hell hope not, but I agree it could happen.

I'm not really sure how you are classifying 9/11 as the same thing as screwing up and killing people.

I'm not... just under the banner that the 2 single greatest loss of life events involved major airlines... which media spins to be safe beyond all means sometimes.

I get somewhat sick of the "death planes/ airlines" spewed from the talking heads these days. Everybody has their issues.

 

[kellwolf]

That was a big discussion in my recurrent. Our safety/corporate culture is horrible. We are taking a new CRM class and in the end it just pissed most of us off.

I'm anxiously awaiting the results of the surveys and interviews being conducted by the Sabatini group over here about our safety culture. Management is promising to release the results to us. I know I did the survey and spent about 45 minutes one on one with one of the researchers the other day. Gave me a chance to vent, but I don't know if it will do any overall good or if it's just a "Look what we're doing!" for Congress.

 

[v1valarob]

I'm anxiously awaiting the results of the surveys and interviews being conducted by the Sabatini group over here about our safety culture. Management is promising to release the results to us. I know I did the survey and spent about 45 minutes one on one with one of the researchers the other day. Gave me a chance to vent, but I don't know if it will do any overall good or if it's just a "Look what we're doing!" for Congress.

Good luck. We haven't heard S. In fact the one comment I did hear was that the "Saab pilots are the most unprofessional pilots they have ever audited." Sure whatever.

EVERY single person I talked to slammed the company, HARSHLY in the survey and when talking face to face with the auditors.

Dont expect big daddy pinnacle to tell you much at all.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

lots of pep talks these days... If management keeps true to their words, maybe we will see some change.

Honestly, the CRM portion put together by the pilots is much better than what we had before... the management back patter was a little over the top. Free lunch was nice

 

[Cruise]

Good luck. We haven't heard S. In fact the one comment I did hear was that the "Saab pilots are the most unprofessional pilots they have ever audited." Sure whatever.

EVERY single person I talked to slammed the company, HARSHLY in the survey and when talking face to face with the auditors.

Dont expect big daddy pinnacle to tell you much at all.

Hmmm, I've heard there was a similar input from the EWR crowd.

Mgmt could save face and release the results.....but I seriously doubt that'll ever happen. It would just prove the level of mismanagement that's been going on here for years (and continues).

 

[wheelsup]

lots of pep talks these days... If management keeps true to their words, maybe we will see some change.

Honestly, the CRM portion put together by the pilots is much better than what we had before... the management back patter was a little over the top. Free lunch was nice

Personally IMO the fact that you guys have been this safe while operating under the current policies speaks volumes about the collective pilot group. I hope my other post didn't come across as being anti-pilot orientated - it wasn't. It was a jab at the corporate culture.

 

[sherpa]

CJC is safe because of the judgement and professionalism of the pilots, period. If you consider the poor policies, cowboy culture, pos airplanes mx hands us and pilot pushing, it is miraculous that there have not been more issues.

I personally know two pilots who have had engine problems from mx forgettting to put the oil filler caps back on. On one flight, it was on both engines. Thankfully it was a very short flight and they made it without either engine failing but had both engine oil lights on after landing. Neither mechanic was fired.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Good luck. We haven't heard S. In fact the one comment I did hear was that the "Saab pilots are the most unprofessional pilots they have ever audited." Sure whatever.

EVERY single person I talked to slammed the company, HARSHLY in the survey and when talking face to face with the auditors.

Dont expect big daddy pinnacle to tell you much at all.

CJC is safe because of the judgement and professionalism of the pilots, period. If you consider the poor policies, cowboy culture, pos airplanes mx hands us and pilot pushing, it is miraculous that there have not been more issues.

I personally know two pilots who have had engine problems from mx forgettting to put the oil filler caps back on. On one flight, it was on both engines. Thankfully it was a very short flight and they made it without either engine failing but had both engine oil lights on after landing. Neither mechanic was fired.

Sounds like the same company I left. I'd be willing to bet the CJC Beech pilots could blow the doors off those surveys on unprofessional behavior. We were better than the saabs at everything .

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

It would seem that many of the corporate policies made about fatigue are a bit of a joke, but at least we've got them moving in that direction.

Here at the Eagle, it's common knowledge that the company is okay with a captain *informing* CS that their crew will get eight hours behind the door, and it starts at that point.

The trend, however voluntary, finally seems to be gradually moving our way.

That's exactly what we do at "the D."

It is amazing the difference that makes in fatigue level in the morning.

 

[Firebird2XC]

That's exactly what we do at "the D."

It is amazing the difference that makes in fatigue level in the morning.

Agreed. Colgan pilots are at the tip of the spear for positive change in our profession. Here's to seeing everybody supporting them in making things right.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Agreed. Colgan pilots are at the tip of the spear for positive change in our profession. Here's to seeing everybody supporting them in making things right.

9L FOPPM 3-73 pretty much says, if you are delayed in getting to the hotel, inform SOC, and your show time will be adjusted accordingly.

I have called more than once on that. If they fight, I pull the book. I have won every time, and never been given crap about it. Sometimes it's important to know your books, and to know where to find stuff... This isn't really a change we need. What we need is longer rest periods, more min day pay, more duty rig time etc.

I would love to see a rig built in for less than 14 days off. Say, 1.5 pay for any days below 14, 14 counts from first day of the month... to make sure they give you short days from 14-10 days off. Below 10 days off is min day pay + 2x pay rate.

Min pay per day at 4 hours, 1:2 duty rig, any pay above 75 hours is at 1.3x normal rate. Top credit line built to 75 hours.

This would push pay up around the system, as well as force the company to staff better. If they did not, pay credits would be decently, way up there.

 

[Firebird2XC]

9L FOPPM 3-73 pretty much says, if you are delayed in getting to the hotel, inform SOC, and your show time will be adjusted accordingly.

I have called more than once on that. If they fight, I pull the book. I have won every time, and never been given crap about it. Sometimes it's important to know your books, and to know where to find stuff... This isn't really a change we need. What we need is longer rest periods, more min day pay, more duty rig time etc.

I would love to see a rig built in for less than 14 days off. Say, 1.5 pay for any days below 14, 14 counts from first day of the month... to make sure they give you short days from 14-10 days off. Below 10 days off is min day pay + 2x pay rate.

Min pay per day at 4 hours, 1:2 duty rig, any pay above 75 hours is at 1.3x normal rate. Top credit line built to 75 hours.

This would push pay up around the system, as well as force the company to staff better. If they did not, pay credits would be decently, way up there.

I say we need all of it. I spend a lot of time in mainline jumpseats lately. The quality of life and pay at their level really illustrates how much our current lifestyles are a joke.

Seriously. We need to establish some hard, non-negotiable baselines industry-wide. Then we build up from there.

 

[CaptainChris87]

What really sucks is they will continue to win contracts and get awarded flying from the other companies out there that treat their employees only semi-inhumanely. What a joke.

I am kindly wondering why don't they go on strike? What proper actions are the flight crew taking??-(A qustion, not a statement.)

 

[jynxyjoe]

Why don't they go on strike? What action are they taking??

You ever hear of the RLA?

 

[kellwolf]

9L FOPPM 3-73 pretty much says, if you are delayed in getting to the hotel, inform SOC, and your show time will be adjusted accordingly.

I have called more than once on that. If they fight, I pull the book. I have won every time, and never been given crap about it. Sometimes it's important to know your books, and to know where to find stuff...

So, if you're SCHEDULED a 9:45 min overnight, will they leave it at 9:45 or adjust it to whatever your min rest is? If they'll leave it, that's friggin awesome. Can't tell you how many times I've had a 13 hour overnight knocked down to 8 or 9 thanks to WX or MX.

 

[dingo222]

Why don't they go on strike? What action are they taking??

Nice title block. Get educated on the issues my friend. EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT Comes off strong and I apologize. Pay it forward, I must remember! Ok, they can't strike because of the RLA, aka the Railway Labor Act, which organized pilots fall under. In a 30 sec nutshell, they cannot strike unless they have bargained in good faith with MGMT for an unspecified period of time and then are released after a cooling period. The short is they cannot strike at this time. However, the union is taking positive and assertive action to educate the crews on what is safe/legal etc. The beauty of being PIC is that we can refuse to what we think is unsafe. All areas are grey right now, but we are shedding light to our members based upon experience, NTSB findings, FAA rulings etc. I apologize for my earlier post. I don't want to edit it and pretend it wasn't there. I'm a man and react as such. I'm directly affected by these BS rules at Colgan and sometimes lose focus. You asked for an honest answer and deserve as much. It's my job here at colgan to remind all of us to remain professional even in the toughest at times, and it starts with me.

 

[dingo222]

So, if you're SCHEDULED a 9:45 min overnight, will they leave it at 9:45 or adjust it to whatever your min rest is? If they'll leave it, that's friggin awesome. Can't tell you how many times I've had a 13 hour overnight knocked down to 8 or 9 thanks to WX or MX.

the answer is they will reduce it. I had to fight to get an 8 hr rest period 1 month ago. We got reduced, and then the van was 30 min late, and left 15 min prior to my show time. I had to fight to leave at the 8hr mark. I lied and let my crew sleep to get 8:00 exactly in the room and took a later van, while getting no less that 4 phone calls from sched, ops, and dickscratch. The sad part is that I'm better off not asking and doing as I want full knowing the regs, vs asking and fighting later.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

So, if you're SCHEDULED a 9:45 min overnight, will they leave it at 9:45 or adjust it to whatever your min rest is? If they'll leave it, that's friggin awesome. Can't tell you how many times I've had a 13 hour overnight knocked down to 8 or 9 thanks to WX or MX.

I don't think we have an overnight scheduled beyond 9 hours to begin with...

They will take it to min rest unless there is reason beyond. I have had my rest period extended to 10 hours from hotel check in before, just by talking to the Duty officer, and quoting sections of our manual over the phone.

Once again, it's knowing the book and how to use it. Any CA out there should call in if the shuttle takes an hour. get your times pushed, you will not get in trouble. esp now