N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
Wow. Makes sense, I guess.
When to Slow on Approach
- Thread starter germb747
- Start date
Wow. Makes sense, I guess.
Was the same for the black jet. T-38 made a great companion trainer for it.
Beehive
Well-Known Member
Back when a controller could tell management, "for sure I had 3 miles".
Case closed.
Today, (good) pilots make their aircraft do stupid stuff for a controllers career...
We do our best to return the favor.
queeno
Ward of the Guberment
you may be takeing that the wrong way, what he is trying to say(in his own trainee way) is that some times controllers are asking for stupid things from the pilots to keep managent happy,lately even at C90 ive seen deals called that are not even deals.thats one of the reasons i retired ,just sick off all the BS.
OG
EGVJ/KDMA/ZAU/C90
Retired
C150J
Well-Known Member
Beehive
Well-Known Member
Thanks for throwing in a veterans perspective of my opinion Mr. Quenno. Congrats on retirement as well.
Mini, No go-arounds yet due to my lack of spacing. Tight, yes. But legal.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Denver liked to keep 170 or even 210 to the marker.
Typically I fly into military airfields where you're the only traffic coming in, but the other day I was coming in to Honolulu (PHNL). ATC tends to keep you high and then slam-dunks you in. Well, I saw this coming about 20 miles out when we were at 8,000 feet. So I began slowing to the speed where I can put the flaps to 40% (can't use spoilers in-flight in the C-5) so I could lose energy and begin configuring. There are no speeds posted on the STAR and ATC didn't assign us a speed, but another pilot on the crew commented that at civilian airports, I mess up the whole flow/sequence when I do that.
So, the question is, when do you expect us to slow from 250 KIAS in the absence of a speed restriction? "Cleared for the approach" seems too late in the game, unless you want to see a tactical arrival--I can do that too.If you could point to a publication reference, I'd be happy to review it.
Fast as possible until the FAF. Hawaii I have heard does not have the 250 below 10 requirement so yes those airplane there could actually be going 300 to the FAF. You're in a heavy airplane though, so your crew's comments are questionable.
cessnaxdriver
Well-Known Member
Typically I fly into military airfields where you're the only traffic coming in, but the other day I was coming in to Honolulu (PHNL). ATC tends to keep you high and then slam-dunks you in. Well, I saw this coming about 20 miles out when we were at 8,000 feet. So I began slowing to the speed where I can put the flaps to 40% (can't use spoilers in-flight in the C-5) so I could lose energy and begin configuring. There are no speeds posted on the STAR and ATC didn't assign us a speed, but another pilot on the crew commented that at civilian airports, I mess up the whole flow/sequence when I do that.
So, the question is, when do you expect us to slow from 250 KIAS in the absence of a speed restriction? "Cleared for the approach" seems too late in the game, unless you want to see a tactical arrival--I can do that too.
I have the same issue with the 400. My company likes us to keep a constant descent going from TOD to touchdown ( Not possible in some USA airports). Lots of toimes they give us a spped of 170kts, which is okay, then jam us up close to other aircraft that have approach speeds of 120kts. The 747-400 usually has approach speeds of 165kts.
When no speed is issued, I start flap extension around 15 miles (takes sometime for the leading lead devices to extend) and then speed reduction around 10 miles
JJink
New Member
....unless you want to see a tactical arrival--I can do that too.
Oh that is good. hahaha
For us GA pukes would flying an ILS approach at 120 Knots in 172 until ¼ mile final or a short approach/landing long keeping it in ground effect to the runway and put it down just in time to make the last turn off to accommodate you big boys qualify as such?? I know the controllers love it.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Hawaii does, the ocean that surronds Hawaii does not.
boondr
Penalty Vectorer
I would say slow when you need to unless told otherwise. If we need speed we'll let you know.
On a similar note I have noticed many airlines now slowing way down when inbound even above 10000. Asking the pilots about this they told me it is a fuel saving measures where in the absence of speed assignment the company mandates a slow down to the most efficient speed for altitude. Some of the pilots have described this as "brutal" when flying at ~270kts for 30 miles at 11,000 or something similar. My question is would you guys/gals as pilots prefer us to tell you to go fast just so you don't have to fly so slow or are you cool with milking the gate-to-gate time the most you can?
On a similar note I have noticed many airlines now slowing way down when inbound even above 10000. Asking the pilots about this they told me it is a fuel saving measures where in the absence of speed assignment the company mandates a slow down to the most efficient speed for altitude. Some of the pilots have described this as "brutal" when flying at ~270kts for 30 miles at 11,000 or something similar. My question is would you guys/gals as pilots prefer us to tell you to go fast just so you don't have to fly so slow or are you cool with milking the gate-to-gate time the most you can?
Maybe your fellow crew member was just saying that ATC is expecting you to not throw out the anchor and slow-fly it in at 135. If we left you in that scenario, we expect you to slow down to get down to some degree. We also expects jets to perform like jets when they can. As far as rules, if a speed is not stated on the arrival anywhere and a speed isn't issued with the approach clearance, its up to you. Why ATC so often has to use speed control is they if they don't, you'll get the guy who wants to slow to 170 30 out from the airport for no reason except he wants to practice slow flight. That screws things up for everyone. In your situation maybe the controller knew he had left you high and had planned for you to slow, otherwise he could have given you a speed assignment with the approach clearance.