Republic buying Frontier

Polar742 said:
I want to hear your logic on this one.
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Why should the pilots of a MAJOR be forced to go below those of a Regional? We have no national seniority list. The pilots of each major airline took the chance to go to a major. They paid their dues at the regional built their time. They then took on their second airline job if not third and or fourth to move to either Frontier and or Midwest. They have MORE experience then most if not ALL the RAH pilots and thus you are going to tell me because an airline pilot RAH comes in and offers money to help them emerge from Chap 11 their pilot should be forced below those of RAH if their hire date at either Midwest and or F9 is below one at RAH? Sorry you are going to disagree and that's perfectly fine, but I'm not changing my thought process on this one.

To my knowledge nothing like this has EVER happen were major airline pilots flying mainline equipment have been taken over my a regional. And it appears that now two will be within the same year. So now lets set the bar high and place these pilots where they belong. Atop of a seniority list if they were to be combined with a REGIONAL. But HELL no worries, if you are an RAH guy you can count on maybe a 10 year upgrade now... :)


Most Junior Captains at each company.....
F9 2003 56 on furlough
Midwest 1989 270 on furlough
RAH 2007
 
Frontier / Republic

Seems Republic will be spending the big bucks to acquire Frontier out of bankruptcy.

Any thoughts?

Supposedly we will be a seperate company, and DEN will be the hub, but I wonder if they will move the operation to IND. Since I commute back and forth from there that is the only advantage, that and no crash pad to pay for.

Wait and See mode for now!

F9DXER
 
Meyers you are out of your mind if you think that we are just gonna staple ourselves to the bottom of our new seniority list. I'm all for a fair integration but saying that all 2000+ of us should be placed under the Frontier guys is nuts. And the Midwest pilots have nothing to do with us at this point.

And BB won't be getting rid of the Airbii and replacing them with 190s anytime soon. He has wanted a big boy airline for a long time. Now he has it and has just given us a bunch of leverage. It's up to us now to take advantage of it.
 
kellwolf said:
Okay, we're going on and on about RAH's scope clause. I'm betting FRONTIER also has one that protects their pilots. So, in this case, who should be right and who should be wrong?
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From Doug's other thread:

Of interest to FAPA Members – the Republic Plan requires changes be made to our CBA including a 3 year extension (to March 2, 2015) of the amendable date and a change to Section 1.F allowing for “unlimited scope relief.”
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Sounds like the only way this will go through is if Frontier relaxes scope.
 
SoCalAprch said:
Meyers you are out of your mind if you think that we are just gonna staple ourselves to the bottom of our new seniority list. I'm all for a fair integration but saying that all 2000+ of us should be placed under the Frontier guys is nuts. And the Midwest pilots have nothing to do with us at this point.

And BB won't be getting rid of the Airbii and replacing them with 190s anytime soon. He has wanted a big boy airline for a long time. Now he has it and has just given us a bunch of leverage. It's up to us now to take advantage of it.
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First of all is about 1100 between F9 and Midwest. And why should a guy from F9 be forced below a guy at RAH? Lets go back to their initial date of hire at an airline then perhaps? Sorry we will agree to disagree here. All there is to it. They should not be put any where near a middle or bottom of a list. They should be major airline pilots flying mainline equipment at the top. Turn the roles around and say you are flying nice and comfy over at F9 right now.... You were hired in 2003 or what not. Do you want to go from your line holder position in an Airbus to a Captain of a damn E170 making less money? Doubtful.

We can all hope someone with the money comes along between now and August and stops this all from happening.
 
meyers9163 said:
First of all is about 1100 between F9 and Midwest. And why should a guy from F9 be forced below a guy at RAH? Lets go back to their initial date of hire at an airline then perhaps? Sorry we will agree to disagree here. All there is to it. They should not be put any where near a middle or bottom of a list. They should be major airline pilots flying mainline equipment at the top. Turn the roles around and say you are flying nice and comfy over at F9 right now.... You were hired in 2003 or what not. Do you want to go from your line holder position in an Airbus to a Captain of a damn E170 making less money? Doubtful.

We can all hope someone with the money comes along between now and August and stops this all from happening.
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What you "want" doesnt really factor in to any of this.
 
How does RAH buying frontier have anything to do with Midwest pilots integrating? That's a whole different poo sandwich that has nothing to do with this.

It would suck to be a Frontier guy and have that happen. We will see how it all shakes out and it very well may be doh for all I know. Just saying it has to be fair and not just "you fly little planes so you goto the back of the line" Isnt fair.
 
Kingairer said:
What you "want" doesnt really factor in to any of this.
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Nor do I care what you have to say? :) Go figure Kingairer :D You'd probably be just happy flying an E190 and having a DEN base now would you not? Now no where in there did I say I WANT anything. Now if you are done acting like a 2 year old I will stop as well... :)
 
Dan208B said:
Hey meyers, you forget the 108 on furlough from RAH.
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The number on APC is higher then that. I had no way of knowing the number on furlough from RAH..... Although hopefully that will change soon and there wont be any but who knows with whats going on in the industry right now... :(
 
SoCalAprch said:
No one cares about them. They fly little planes and chose to ruin the industry! :sarcasm:
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Little planes? Last I checked you fly E170/E175/E190s which are the LARGEST "Regional" aircraft out there.... And no one is blamming the pilots of RAH at all. Now if you vote for a pay rate and crappy contract on your negotiations then we will cast the blame at you as well. Until then its up to your group to vote for a change, much like that Obama guy....
 
meyers9163 said:
Little planes? Last I checked you fly E170/E175/E190s which are the LARGEST "Regional" aircraft out there.... And no one is blamming the pilots of RAH at all. Now if you vote for a pay rate and crappy contract on your negotiations then we will cast the blame at you as well. Until then its up to your group to vote for a change, much like that Obama guy....
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For the first time in a while I agree with this 100%. We have a bunch of leverage going into these negotiations and I think we deserve the support of our fellow pilots. RAH is changing the face of aviation and it will affect most of us. So belittling and saying how much you hate it does no good. The ship as sailed and it's up to our pilot group to take all we can from management. If anything this Frontier deal will help us negotiate higher pay and make it inefficient to keep replacing mainline jobs with regional pay.
 
SoCalAprch said:
For the first time in a while I agree with this 100%. We have a bunch of leverage going into these negotiations and I think we deserve the support of our fellow pilots. RAH is changing the face of aviation and it will affect most of us. So belittling and saying how much you hate it does no good. The ship as sailed and it's up to our pilot group to take all we can from management. If anything this Frontier deal will help us negotiate higher pay and make it inefficient to keep replacing mainline jobs with regional pay.
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Agreed 100%...
 
meyers9163 said:
Nor do I care what you have to say? :) Go figure Kingairer :D You'd probably be just happy flying an E190 and having a DEN base now would you not? Now no where in there did I say I WANT anything. Now if you are done acting like a 2 year old I will stop as well... :)
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"You were hired in 2003 or what not. Do you want to go from your line holder position in an Airbus to a Captain of a damn E170 making less money? Doubtful."

Thats what you said..."You" in this, is not <<--you....
 
Kingairer said:
"You were hired in 2003 or what not. Do you want to go from your line holder position in an Airbus to a Captain of a damn E170 making less money? Doubtful."

Thats what you said..."You" in this, is not <<--you....
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2003 is the MOST junior Captain at F9... Now please try to follow along. Its not that difficult even for someone from the West Coast/Denver... :) It was a hypothetical situation in general for all pilots NOT the all mighty Kingairer. Now ALSO listen to this Kingairer, I agree to DISAGREE with you on this issue. Now you can please let it go :).
 
Kingairer said:
Im not sure....I wouldnt be suprised if RAH outstation bases 190s out of MCI for DEN ops...I bet the fence for DEN will be up like the one in Berlin awhile back.
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You know, a couple cans of spray paint, a little bit of creativity and it's almost a fashion accessory!
 
zmiller4 said:
From Doug's other thread:

Sounds like the only way this will go through is if Frontier relaxes scope.
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Unlimited scope relief?

With Republic owning the assets of Frontier, if there's no scope at all, what's to stop them from taking Frontier's Airbii and sliding them over to Republic?

When the most pronounced strain of SJS hits a certain amount of Republic pilots, they'll likely cave and accept Bus flying at extremely subpar rates, or at the very least sub-Frontier rates. They'll have MADE IT, after all. They're flying the BIG planes.

This is Frank Lorenzo all over again, just with different names and faces.

If Republic gets unlimited Scope relief, Frontier is dead, and a severe blow will be struck to pilot pay and QOL. A very dire precedent will be set.

I seriously hope Republic pilots are aware of this, and realize the implications.

I'm not really how sure I'd be willing to hear their "stuck in the middle" story if that actually happened. If they actively participate in cannibalizing Frontier pilot jobs, they're as bad as Lorenzo in my eyes, and will be treated as such.
 
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