Lost Comm - Squawking Procedure

U

U-Dog

Well-Known Member
OK- I got into a little 'debate' with my CFI regarding the proper squawking procedure for lost comm.

In reading the AIM (Section 6-4-2) it states: "That if an aircraft with a coded beacon transponder experiences a loss of two-way radio capability, the pilot should adjust the transponder to reply on Mode A/3, Code 7600."

My CFI says that the 'correct' procedure is to squawk 7700 for 1 minute and then squawk 7600.

Which is correct?
 
U-Dog said:
OK- I got into a little 'debate' with my CFI regarding the proper squawking procedure for lost comm.

In reading the AIM (Section 6-4-2) it states: "That if an aircraft with a coded beacon transponder experiences a loss of two-way radio capability, the pilot should adjust the transponder to reply on Mode A/3, Code 7600."

My CFI says that the 'correct' procedure is to squawk 7700 for 1 minute and then squawk 7600.

Which is correct?
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One was correct, one now is correct. The CFI has the old way of doing it...it used to be his way. That method has since been superceded by what the AIM currently says.
 
U-Dog said:
OK- I got into a little 'debate' with my CFI regarding the proper squawking procedure for lost comm.

In reading the AIM (Section 6-4-2) it states: "That if an aircraft with a coded beacon transponder experiences a loss of two-way radio capability, the pilot should adjust the transponder to reply on Mode A/3, Code 7600."

My CFI says that the 'correct' procedure is to squawk 7700 for 1 minute and then squawk 7600.

Which is correct?
Click to expand...


Failed... Back to the FSDO for new CFI initial:D

Mike's right, that's the old way, Kudo's for actually reading the AIM. If your CFI wants to argue the point, tell him to show you the regulation (In a current FAR/AIM)
 
BillErvin said:
Failed... Back to the FSDO for new CFI initial:D

Mike's right, that's the old way, Kudo's for actually reading the AIM. If your CFI wants to argue the point, tell him to show you the regulation (In a current FAR/AIM)
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You know what's weird? I still think of it in the old was since I grew up on that for so long. Even more weird, is that there's new pilots that don't remember "how it was back in the day". Same with airspace...I still think generally in terms of TCA/ARSA/PCA etc and most pilots here on the board, as well as most anyway, grew up long after that transition.

The funny ones are the guys that don't remember regional life before the age of RJs :D
 
MikeD said:
You know what's weird? I still think of it in the old was since I grew up on that for so long. Even more weird, is that there's new pilots that don't remember "how it was back in the day". Same with airspace...I still think generally in terms of TCA/ARSA/PCA etc and most pilots here on the board, as well as most anyway, grew up long after that transition.

The funny ones are the guys that don't remember regional life before the age of RJs :D
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I said positive control area in instrument ground one day and got a "deer in the headlight look" from the instructor.:rotfl:

Its great for me down here at school, I earned my PPL old school, no GPS just a chart, compass, single OBS, and clock. Most of the kids here don't want to get near a plane without a Garmin 430. Makes it easy to get a plane if I want one. I'm doing an Instrument XC to St. Pete tomorrow and all the GPS airplanes are already taken, but three Duchess's with Collins proline, ADF:eek:, and DME. My biggest problem down here is my 51YO brain don't pick up things quite as fast as the kids :mad:

Even when I have the Garmin, I don't put it on the Map page. Too easy to cheat, and I'd really like to be able to do it without. It does make a great DME though:D
 
BillErvin said:
Its great for me down here at school, I earned my PPL old school, no GPS just a chart, compass, single OBS, and clock. Most of the kids here don't want to get near a plane without a Garmin 430. Makes it easy to get a plane if I want one. I'm doing an Instrument XC to St. Pete tomorrow and all the GPS airplanes are already taken, but three Duchess's with Collins proline, ADF:eek:, and DME. My biggest problem down here is my 51YO brain don't pick up things quite as fast as the kids :mad:
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You know what that reminds me of? Our BP PA-18 Super Cubs. What a great airplane....so simple and straightforward.
 
A couple of years back I ran into a couple of young Air Force students in their shiney new T-6 'Texans' at an FBO in Midland Texas. They saw my old flight bag and we started chatting when one of them asked me what Navy trainer did I start in. When I told them it was the T-28 the other one looked at me and said - "What's that?"

God I felt old.....

Now that I think about it, every airplane (with the exception of the E-2)that was on cruise with me is now either cut-up or in the Boneyard.
 
Does anyone know when the change took place (from 7700 and 7600 to just 7600)?

I'm just curious as to the reason it changed. Seems like back in the early days of radio navigation, lost comm. would be an emergency. Today, w/ mulitple nav. radios, it doesn't seem quite so bad. It would still be bad in IMC.
 
escapepilot said:
Does anyone know when the change took place (from 7700 and 7600 to just 7600)?

I'm just curious as to the reason it changed. Seems like back in the early days of radio navigation, lost comm. would be an emergency. Today, w/ mulitple nav. radios, it doesn't seem quite so bad. It would still be bad in IMC.
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Am trying to remember, but I believe it was when I was still flying civilian, so about 15-ish years ago? Mid-90s?
 
The change in the procedure could have resulted from a change in how controllers' equipment interprets and displays the emergency squawk codes... but that's pure speculation on my part.
 
OhioStatePilot said:
The change in the procedure could have resulted from a change in how controllers' equipment interprets and displays the emergency squawk codes... but that's pure speculation on my part.
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That's probably right. I know the center DSR flashes "RDOF" when an a/c is squawking 7600.
 
Yeah, I think it is just a change in equipment, and what the scope shows depends on what equipment you have, STARS, ARTS, etc. From what I have seen, 7600, and the tag goes read, you get an audible warning, and the tag shows "RF", the 7500 tag shows "HJ", and 7700 shows "EM"
 
Just a side thought; as a CFI, I dont know anything, unless there is a regulation, AIM, AC, or handbook to back it up. Unless is is common sense (which is not so common). I think that it is a good method in ground school.
 
From an ATC perspective: If you have an emergency squawk 7700. If you ONLY have a radio failure squawk 7600. If you are being hijacked squawk 7500. If you are experiencing radio problems/failure AND you have an emergency at the SAME TIME - squawk 7600 for a few seconds then 7700 for a few seconds then 7600, etc. I suggest alternating each code for a few seconds rather than leaving one on for an entire minute. Do this process for about a minute if able. then leave it on 7700.

That's only a suggestion. Any one of those codes will flash red and indicate RDOF, EMRG, or whatever.
 
PilotChip said:
From an ATC perspective: If you have an emergency squawk 7700. If you ONLY have a radio failure squawk 7600. If you are being hijacked squawk 7500. If you are experiencing radio problems/failure AND you have an emergency at the SAME TIME - squawk 7600 for a few seconds then 7700 for a few seconds then 7600, etc. I suggest alternating each code for a few seconds rather than leaving one on for an entire minute. Do this process for about a minute if able. then leave it on 7700.

That's only a suggestion. Any one of those codes will flash red and indicate RDOF, EMRG, or whatever.
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??????? I think pilots have better things to do during an emergency than messing with the transponder continously. Just squawk 7700 and the NORDO part will be understood when we can't get ahold of you.
 
You're absolutely right. I should comment on myself: only alternate the two codes once or twice if you can.

In any case, failure to speak on the radio will be an obvious indication of a rdof as well.

Good point.
 
PilotChip said:
If you are experiencing radio problems/failure AND you have an emergency at the SAME TIME - squawk 7600 for a few seconds then 7700 for a few seconds then 7600, etc. I suggest alternating each code for a few seconds rather than leaving one on for an entire minute. Do this process for about a minute if able. then leave it on 7700.
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If you have time to do both than God Bless.
I recommend to squawk 7700 in this case and work on the problem. ATC will ask you to ident if you receive their transmission & try to reach you on guard & check with other sectors to see if you went back to them & and ask company to contact you. If no ident or other conformation is received we'll clear the lane for you.
Even if you hear us and don't have time to talk, we'll talk about it on the ground while drowning ourselves in bock.
 
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