Are the airlines to blame for our low wages? Not really.

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MikeD said:
Don't forget Clinton not allowing American to strike in 1997 during his presidential term..ordering them back to work 4 minutes after the strike began..
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That's not quite how it happened. The APA was negotiating non-stop with AMR until the very last minute of the 30-day cooling off period, trying to get a deal, but the problem was that they had made some pretty incredible promises to the membership about what they were going to get (no more outsourced RJs, for example). They had no chance of actually getting what they had promised their members, and they knew it. When the deadline hit, President Clinton's Chief Counsel, Bruce Lindsey, called the President of the APA and asked him what they would like Clinton to do. Knowing that they were in a no-win situation, the APA President said "you know, we wouldn't really be opposed to a PEB." Taking the hint, Lindsey went back to Clinton and told him to order a PEB.

The PEB did exactly what the APA hoped for. It threw out all of the crazy promises that they had made that they would never be able to deliver on, but it still got them improvements over what the company was offering at the table.

In short, Clinton helped the APA with his decision to postpone their strike and issue a PEB. He was just doing what they wanted.

He had them ordered back to work again in 1999 following a mass "sick-out", due to RLA restrictions.
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President Clinton had nothing to do with that one. That was a Texas judge that found them in violation of the RLA (which they were). The judge was absolutely right, and the APA screwed up organized labor under the RLA for a long time thanks to those shenanigans. The injunctions that were issued as a result make it very difficult for RLA labor groups to do anything nowadays, because his rulings are now part of case law.

At least a strike was allowed to occur under Bush's term.
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No large strikes were allowed under Bush's administration after CMR, and some would argue that even that strike wasn't large since it was a "regional." Under Clinton, however, the IAM conducted a 5-day strike at USAirways, the APFA conducted a 5-day strike at American, and ALPA conducted a 15-day strike at NWA. Bush never allowed a strike at a major carrier or even a regional carrier after CMR, despite the fact that several airlines were approaching record lengths of time under mediation during his term.
 
Bush also prevented the APFA from striking with their (our) contract in the spring of 2001. I was just out of AA new-hire school on the tail-end of those negotiations, and on the "strike eve" I non-reved to BOS for a friend of Bill's Return-To-Work party. Bush came right out and said he would issue a PEB and order us back to work.
 
Is it illegal to slap an ex-president?

Scratch that, that's assault and battery. That's illegal for everybody.

I remember after his experiences in Vietnam, my Father wanted to pour out a bottle of whisky on LBJ's grave.

The only catch was that he wanted to drink it first.

He never made good on that, but I think Bush Jr. would make that kind of list in my Father's mind.
 
BajtheJino said:
What facts?

Theres a weekly thread of guys complaining about their low pay and everyone wondering who is going to fix it for them. It seems since Obama has come into office and started bailing everyone out guys think (akin to buying a lottery ticket and having candy cane dreams and sugar plum visions of hitting it big) that the government is going to step in and re-regulate wages to PanAm/TWA days. Guess what, its not going to happen. Even with the results of 3407 no one is going to step in a just give everyone a pay raise.
Afterall, your union is the one responsible for negotiating your pay. Why do they keep giving it away? Why don't you guys demand they negotiate the way you want? Oh, thats right. The pilot group is ok with giving it away because they're told if they don't they'll lose their jobs. CRJ900 on the lot!?! I'll do it for $20/hour! Hells yes! Then you get what we have here (failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach) a lot of typing and no action.
Writing your congressman/senator will never change pay.
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I feel as though I should be renewing my title as "the closer".

Tell ya what. Keep on doing what your doing, you look illiterate doing it, didn't get real high on the old verbal did ya? I stand by MY union any day. These guys, and MY union have done a lot for me, and the day I need your advice I'll have a tag on my toe. XJ fought hard for what they got and it took them about 8 years to get it. You want to see what a group of real professional pilots look like sometime come down to MEM A19.

Facts remain the congress can control pay, as was said many times over. You were wrong, you want to deflect and dance that's just fine. Enjoy your night, I know I have been.
 
jynxyjoe said:
I feel as though I should be renewing my title as "the closer".

Tell ya what. Keep on doing what your doing, you look illiterate doing it, didn't get real high on the old verbal did ya? I stand by MY union any day. These guys, and MY union have done a lot for me, and the day I need your advice I'll have a tag on my toe. XJ fought hard for what they got and it took them about 8 years to get it. You want to see what a group of real professional pilots look like sometime come down to MEM A19.

Facts remain the congress can control pay, as was said many times over. You were wrong, you want to deflect and dance that's just fine. Enjoy your night, I know I have been.
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Such vitriol. Why is it so many are so incapable of forming a coherent, objective argument. Seems like name calling is the new discussion. Dancing, toe tags, illiterate? Wonderful discussion. When did I offer you advice? I make a comment based on my observations and conversations and you come back with sarcasm? Typical of a person incapable of discussion.
Btw, there are professional pilots outside of A19. Some of them are up at Feeder City every night and various other airports though out the country.
 
No, seriously. What am I supposed to comprehend? What am I missing? What is it that I'm supposed to understand? What are you so pissed about?
Instead of having a tantrum why don't you take this opportunity to educate me?
 
BajtheJino said:
No, seriously. What am I supposed to comprehend? What am I missing? What is it that I'm supposed to understand? What are you so pissed about?
Instead of having a tantrum why don't you take this opportunity to educate me?
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While my CFI, II, and MEI may still be current I have neither the desire nor the patience. You think you are a good guy getting judged wrong? Fine. I'm not ur hero or mentor this time around. I suggest listening to some of the guys here that like educating. As far as I'm concerned you've made up your mind, and I'm wagering it's funnier to watch you do this over and over again.

Also, what made you think this go around of giving me advice would go unignored? Actually scratch that. I could care less. Do whatever it is you do when you aren't chatting me up. Don't worry about me getting "pissed". When I'm pissed I don't type. Don't worry about me at all in fact, worry about yourself.
 
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