3407 public hearing

sherpa

sherpa

Well-Known Member
So far things such as fatigue/sick policy, systems and SOP adherence as well as training have been discussed.

Just so everyone out there knows there is a no punishment/hassle sick/fatigue policy for Colgan air pilots and we are NOT encouraged to fly with a cold. This is was said under oath by a top official.

It's rich in there folks get ready!!! Our finest are showing their finest for the entire country to see!
 
Yea, I have never been threatened with a missed trip if I didn't produce a doctors note for calling in sick for 1 day.

Sure.
 
Give 'em hell, Colganites!

The pilot-pushing and unsafe B.S. that Colgan management shovels out has met its end.

Stare it down with steely determination. Your time has come.

.. and yes, this sounds cheesy as hell, but I'm totally serious.
 
yeah, a fatigue report is all that's needed if you feel fatigued. And a resume, cause you're butt is getting hauled out. Oh yeah Dean, We do have a ProStandards committee. You just refuse to meet with us.
 
Anonymous reports to CNN. If I got threatened with missed trips for sick calls on a regular basis, the current spotlight on Colgan certainly seems like it might be a chance for payback. Cable news loves to black out faces and change voices!
 
sherpa said:
Just so everyone out there knows there is a no punishment/hassle sick/fatigue policy for Colgan air pilots and we are NOT encouraged to fly with a cold. This is was said under oath by a top official.
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If you guys need the attendance policy from your sister airline, I can get that for you. It's pretty darn obvious about how it emphasizes discipline over safety. More than 3 occurrences in a rolling 12 month period nets you a trip to the base manager for a fact finding meeting. Now, I'm not genius, and I'm not the most experienced guy around, but every other job I've worked (all 7 of them) woulda said you were a model employee if you only called in sick 3 times in a year. Pinnacle thinks you're a health hazard apparently. I'll start saving the crew messages that say things like "If you call in before, on or after <insert holiday> you MUST bring a doctor's note or receive a missed trip."
 
kellwolf said:
I'll start saving the crew messages that say things like "If you call in before, on or after <insert holiday> you MUST bring a doctor's note or receive a missed trip."
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I still have the one from Christmas. All I have to do is hit print.
 
kellwolf said:
If you guys need the attendance policy from your sister airline, I can get that for you. It's pretty darn obvious about how it emphasizes discipline over safety. More than 3 occurrences in a rolling 12 month period nets you a trip to the base manager for a fact finding meeting. Now, I'm not genius, and I'm not the most experienced guy around, but every other job I've worked (all 7 of them) woulda said you were a model employee if you only called in sick 3 times in a year. Pinnacle thinks you're a health hazard apparently. I'll start saving the crew messages that say things like "If you call in before, on or after <insert holiday> you MUST bring a doctor's note or receive a missed trip."
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The chiefs threatened to extend my probation because I made 5 sick calls in a 12 month period. What can I say, I was sick as a dog that year, and I had doctors notes for every single occurrence. The chiefs response, "Yeah those don't matter, it's an HR thing, we'll have to schedule a meeting and get your probation pushed back another 90 days."

One call to the union later and I didn't hear anything about it again. Glad I had those guys or I woulda been hosed.
 
jtrain609 said:
The chiefs threatened to extend my probation because I made 5 sick calls in a 12 month period. What can I say, I was sick as a dog that year, and I had doctors notes for every single occurrence. The chiefs response, "Yeah those don't matter, it's an HR thing, we'll have to schedule a meeting and get your probation pushed back another 90 days."

One call to the union later and I didn't hear anything about it again. Glad I had those guys or I woulda been hosed.
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If I get sick before the end of June, I'll get the same type of call. I figure, instead of calling in sick, I'll come into work and do my best to spread the flu/strep/whatever to every chief pilot I can find.
 
Devil's advocate...

WIth the amount of BS sick calls that go on...you think it's surprising that a chief pilot questions 5 sick calls in a year? I'd say that they weren't doing their jobs if they didn't do a little investigating.
 
Baronman said:
Devil's advocate...

WIth the amount of BS sick calls that go on...you think it's surprising that a chief pilot questions 5 sick calls in a year? I'd say that they weren't doing their jobs if they didn't do a little investigating.
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Oh no, it's not that coming to chat about the 5 sick calls is an issue; it's when I tell them, "I have doctors notes, including that one where I was out for 3 weeks because of a MASSIVE sinus infection where the doctor grounded me and told me in no uncertain terms that I wasn't going back to work until said sinus infection was cleared up," and it's met with "Sorry, doesn't matter."

That's concerning to me, and the fact is that without the union there they could have pressed me a lot harder than they did.

Truth be told, I liked the chiefs in Newark for the most part. They had a job to do, and when we were out flying around and needed somebody to back us up they were there. That being said, to simply say that pilot pushing doesn't exist would be a lie. Even with as good of a job as I think those guys do, I still ended up feeling like my back was against the wall due to not being fit to fly.
 
Baronman said:
Devil's advocate...

WIth the amount of BS sick calls that go on...you think it's surprising that a chief pilot questions 5 sick calls in a year? I'd say that they weren't doing their jobs if they didn't do a little investigating.
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Reverse devils advocate:

If you have the sick time available, why is it the companies busniess how you use it? Let's say a pilot calls in sick for their sons graduation ceremony. If they were forced to work, would their head be in the game?
 
FlyChicaga said:
Reverse devils advocate:

If you have the sick time available, why is it the companies busniess how you use it? Let's say a pilot calls in sick for their sons graduation ceremony. If they were forced to work, would their head be in the game?
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Solution: call it "personal time." If it's listed as a "benefit," why am I punished for using it?

I'll use my mom as an example. She works for a truck line (in customer service, not as a driver ya nitwits) represented by the IBT. It's listed as "personal time," and she'll just occasionally call in and not go to work. She's going to the zoo with us on Friday on one such day. Hell, she might as well. She's retiring in a few weeks, and if she doesn't use 'em, she loses 'em. She doesn't have to stand in front of her supervisor and justify herself for doing it 4 times in a year, either.

You're gonna have bad apples that play the system at any job, any company and in any field. It's just a fact and part of the human condition. The problem comes when the company drops the hammer on everyone for a few screw offs rather than eliminating the screw offs. Admittedly, this is one of the downsides of unionization: the screw offs get protected rather than kicked to the curb like they probably should. Airlines are notorious for running lean and trying to eek by on as little staffing as possible (mine especially). This puts them in a very precarious position when flu season hits. So, in order to trim costs, they come up with these elaborate (and IMO pilot pushing, scare tacticy) policies in order to get people to fly rather than call in sick. It saves them $$$ since they don't have to carry as many reserves (or in my company's case, cancel flights since all the reserves were covering the open time no one picked up).

I looked back at my last two months. The longest overnight I've had was 11:22. I was pretty much on min rest (either reduced, normal or comp) EVERY overnight unless it was a day off. Even the nights I had at home between trips were 10 hours. Take the time it takes to ride the employee bus to my car and drive home, I probably woulda gotten MORE rest in a hotel. Last Wed was the first time I had a RSV day that I didn't get called in THREE MONTHS. It's a wonder my immune system hasn't shut down in protest.
 
kellwolf said:
I looked back at my last two months. The longest overnight I've had was 11:22. I was pretty much on min rest (either reduced, normal or comp) EVERY overnight unless it was a day off. Even the nights I had at home between trips were 10 hours. Take the time it takes to ride the employee bus to my car and drive home, I probably woulda gotten MORE rest in a hotel. Last Wed was the first time I had a RSV day that I didn't get called in THREE MONTHS. It's a wonder my immune system hasn't shut down in protest.
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Because of the way I moved my RSV days for April and May I have been 6 on 1 off for the last 5 weeks. I start week 6 today (13th). I have gone 30 in 7 all 5 weeks. My guess is I will not make it this week with a few days off.
 
yeah!!!!!!!!!!! whatever!!! rest in peace marvin and jessica! let these stupid people talk crap about your great life!!!! ohhh public hearing!!! Ohh its a striaht wing, or oh its a 700 series, or ohhhh is a new 900.!!!! But hay I am crazy to think that we are the ones to blame!! all of you out there really dont do the whole sterile cockpit and you know it!!!!!!!!!!!! I just cant believe.... you dont even know him or you knew him!!! he was a great pilot and he got caught in a bad situation, but hey good thing is wasnt you or you would be on the news!!! and DEAD!!!! but keep with you words about it!!! and yes I knew him and you are crazy to think he was a bad pilot cause I flew with him and he was a great pilot!!!!!! The FAA is the to blame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
brewpilot said:
yeah!!!!!!!!!!! whatever!!! rest in peace marvin and jessica! let these stupid people talk crap about your great life!!!! ohhh public hearing!!! Ohh its a striaht wing, or oh its a 700 series, or ohhhh is a new 900.!!!! But hay I am crazy to think that we are the ones to blame!! all of you out there really dont do the whole sterile cockpit and you know it!!!!!!!!!!!! I just cant believe.... you dont even know him or you knew him!!! he was a great pilot and he got caught in a bad situation, but hey good thing is wasnt you or you would be on the news!!! and DEAD!!!! but keep with you words about it!!! and yes I knew him and you are crazy to think he was a bad pilot cause I flew with him and he was a great pilot!!!!!! The FAA is the to blame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You drunk, bro?
 
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