Better start your flight training soon...

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TFaudree_ERAU said:
No, I'm not afraid. I'm one of the few corporate pilots that DOESN'T wake up in the morning and wonder if he'll still have a job.

Again, the congestion is not in the enroute structure, it is in the terminal environment, more precisely on a 10 mile final. If my corporate jet isn't sharing the 10 mile final into EWR, how am I contributing to the airspace problem.

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain to me how the airlines are fronting the cost for the corporate "fatcats" to go play in Aspen or Boca Raton for the weekend. I'd love to have a cup of coffee while I read that one. I just hope I don't end up spitting it out all over the screen
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Because TEB gets in the way of EWR arrivals and departures. We turned final to 22R over TEB almost all of the time, and our arrivals would conflict with yours.
 
What often gets overlooked by both sides in this "discussion" is how the government would collect the fees that they propose to levy. The way I see it, there are three possible methods:


  1. Contract it out to a private company.
  2. Create a government-owned corporation (like USPS or Amtrak)
  3. Create a new government agency (I'll call it the Aviation Revenue Service).
What all three options have in common is that they require money simply to exist. That is, they will have a staff that expects to be paid and will have facilities and infrastructure that needs maintaining. The cost for this will likely be added to the fees levied on the actual services you use.

Why is this bad? Well, while the cost of that ILS you shoot at Metropolis International or the LOC to Backwater Muni probably won't change over time, the "processing fee" tacked onto it probably would. And that trend would be up, not down.

Of course, there is a fourth, far less complicated, option. Why not just put a tax on fuel? You can't use the NAS without burning fuel. Oh, wait... ;)
 
Velocipede said:
The great thing is, you pups make the argument FOR me every time you post. More user fees, please!
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Enlightenment, humor, sarcasm.....I don't run around he with a flame thrower all the time;)

'pup' eh? What was that about using "charged statements" that only belittle people?
 
jtrain609 said:
Because TEB gets in the way of EWR arrivals and departures. We turned final to 22R over TEB almost all of the time, and our arrivals would conflict with yours.
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It amazes me how anyone could graduate from ERAU and fly a corporate jet and STILL not know how ATC manages flow control.

Weird.
 
Velocipede said:
It amazes me how anyone could graduate from ERAU and fly a corporate jet and STILL not know how ATC manages flow control.

Weird.
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I think it's just a matter of not realizing that we're turning final over them. New York Approach always seemed to keep TEB arrivals lower than us, but that's still airspace that could be used in the terminal environment for EWR, LGA or JFK.
 
Another NYC Example

jtrain609 said:
Because TEB gets in the way of EWR arrivals and departures. We turned final to 22R over TEB almost all of the time, and our arrivals would conflict with yours.
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When EWR uses runway 11 for arrivals, Morristown often goes into an EDCT program.

If Morristown is going to be busy and doesn't want to restrict arrivals and departures, EWR can't use 11 and it goes into a massive groundstop.
 
Velocipede said:
Oh, sure. Congressmen. Probably the worst fatcats you could have imagined. That's REALLY good for your argument. NOT.

I'm pretty sure the corporate operators will find a way to pass the fees on to their fatcat clients. Of course, that might cut into profits. Stop being a shill for the wealthy.
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Says the major airline captain sitting on a govt. pension funded by all of us, training paid by us, and types paid by us. This is the reason he wants to pull up the ladder on all us underlings (or Piper pukes, whatever). He has no idea how much an extra 5%, 10%, 15% does to flight training when you aren't being funded by the tax payers. Yeah, karma will be a bitch one day.
 
pullup said:
Says the major airline captain sitting on a govt. pension funded by all of us, training paid by us, and types paid by us. This is the reason he wants to pull up the ladder on all us underlings (or Piper pukes, whatever). He has no idea how much an extra 5%, 10%, 15% does to flight training when you aren't being funded by the tax payers. Yeah, karma will be a bitch one day.
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Envy sucks doesn't it. But, the ladder will always remain extended. You just may have to pay a little more to get up here.

Here's some ideas for you:

Serve the country in the military for 11.5 years of active duty like I did. I'd say you "taxpayers" got decent value out of me.

Then spend another 3.5 in the Reserves while flying full time at your airline. That'll give you about 3 days off a month to spend with your family.

Of course, if you'd rather just write a check to get an airline job, I don't object. Just quit crying that it might cost you a few more bucks.
 
Velocipede said:
Envy sucks doesn't it. But, the ladder will always remain extended. You just may have to pay a little more to get up here.

Here's some ideas for you:

Serve the country in the military for 11.5 years of active duty like I did. I'd say you "taxpayers" got decent value out of me.

Then spend another 3.5 in the Reserves while flying full time at your airline. That'll give you about 3 days off a month to spend with your family.

Of course, if you'd rather just write a check to get an airline job, I don't object. Just quit crying that it might cost you a few more bucks.
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Funny, someone who "writes a check" still has to pass the checkrides, the certificate is still earned, be it payed for with funds or with time & military service.
 
Velocipede said:
Envy sucks doesn't it. But, the ladder will always remain extended. You just may have to pay a little more to get up here.
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Remember this folks. This is the guy who will be asking for your support the next time his union doesn't get what it wants.
 
Yep. But that's not the heart of their argument. They seem to think the military route is "free."

They're welcome to go for it.

Yet, they'd rather pay for their licenses than serve the country. Fine. But, I guarantee you that as long as you pay the money, flight schools will get you your certificates.

They just object to paying the proposed user fees. It might cost them more. Oh well, I guess an agenda is an agenda.

The problem, as I see it, is the GA types have gotten dragged along with the corporate fatcats and their agenda. But, I guess the idea that Americans can be duped by big corporate machines is not really all that far out.
 
Minuteman said:
Remember this folks. This is the guy who will be asking for your support the next time his union doesn't get what it wants.
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That doesn't make sense at any level. ALPA negotiates with individual companies for contracts. The "public" has little or no interest in individual airline labor contracts.
 
Velocipede said:
Yep. But that's not the heart of their argument. They seem to think the military route is "free."

They're welcome to go for it.

Yet, they'd rather pay for their licenses than serve the country. Fine. But, I guarantee you that as long as you pay the money, flight schools will get you your certificates.
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The military route is free, hell you even get paid. And I would stop way short of telling people to pony up and join the military because you don't know half the peoples' history on this board.

They just object to paying the proposed user fees. It might cost them more. Oh well, I guess an agenda is an agenda.
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As I said before, you have never had to pay out of pocket for anything aviation related. Maybe a liiiiiiiiiiiiitle sympathy would go a long way towards others whose eyes weren't good enough to be a military pilot. M'kay? Just pay a little more? Any % increase is more money out of our pocket. Might not be a lot for a major airline captain with a fat govt. pension (after only 20 yrs at that) but for us lowly white trash paying for your salary it is a lot.
Velocipede said:
That doesn't make sense at any level. ALPA negotiates with individual companies for contracts. The "public" has little or no interest in individual airline labor contracts.
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Yet you waste no time whining in papers and doing support pickets to the public.
 
I'm fully aware that EWR arrivals overfly TEB. All one has to do is look up from the ramp and see it. I'm also fully aware that we fly the outer perimeter of the Class B at 3000 feet to accomodate EWR arrivals to 22. On departure, we level at 1500 for a good while to allow EWR traffic to cross overhead on final. To say that we cause all the congestion at EWR is a long shot. We're also subject to waiting for a release, ie a hole in EWR arrivals. I think the system works pretty well and mostly in your favor

And Velocipede, you always seem to be able to blast every comment that comes from someone who isn't an ALPA sheep and disagrees with you, but you can never back it up with factual evidence to support your statement. Explain to me how EWR and TEB flow control works; explain to me how airlines front the costs associated with GA. I'd really love to have the John King of JC teach me everything I need to know

Until you pull that off, you're nothing more than a grumpy old bastard behind the veils of a keyboard.
 
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