ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
yep
how would you log this?
- Thread starter DPApilot
- Start date
yep
I don't have my FAR/AIM in front of me right now, but doesn't the reg say that there has to be one point of landing that is farther than 50nm from the origination airport? While RFD-MDW may be longer than 50, neither is more than 50 from DPA, correct?
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
64 nm (I think) From RFD-MDW. I think that most certainly meets the more than 50nm definition...
And wouldn't RFD be the originating airport for that leg?
As long as he landed at each airport along the way, it counts.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
What if he lands and spends the night in RFD. Is DPA still the originating airport then? If not, what has changed?
IslandFlyer
Well-Known Member
As stated before 61.1(B)That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure.
Just taking a stab at it, but unless any of the airports you landed at were at least 50NM from your "original point of departure" then it would not be considered cross country. Just my .02 which isn't worth much!
Just taking a stab at it, but unless any of the airports you landed at were at least 50NM from your "original point of departure" then it would not be considered cross country. Just my .02 which isn't worth much!
unclenobby
Well-Known Member
As long as you land at RFD then you have to depart to leave right?!! For the purpose of logging the XC RFD then becomes your "original departure airport" for that flight. Then you can log RFD - MDW - DPA as XC since one stop >50NM from original departure airport. I think you are reading too much into the "original departure airport" reference.
In other words log it as 2 flights. DPA - RFD (non XC), RFD - MDW - DPA (XC). Its not that complicated.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Since you put it in quotes, how do you interpret "original point of departure". Is it where the airplane is based or is it the last airport you departed from?
IslandFlyer
Well-Known Member
Well I would interpret "original" as being the first point of departure. Does that not make sense?
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Take the commercial long XC. 300 nm with a minimum of three landing with at least one being 250 nm from the original departure point.
With your interpretation, I can make 25 small 10 nm "hops" and it still counts as 250 nm from the first point of departure.
IslandFlyer
Well-Known Member
That is perfectly legit, well sort of. You still need one leg that is 150 nm straight distance without 'hopping', and the farthest airport you land at has to be at least 250 nm from the first take off.
In the context of the OP's question. I would say as long as one of your airports are 50 nm from the airport you left when you first took off, then the entire flight is a cross country that can be applied to any rating.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
Wow, it sounds like people are making this waaaay to hard.
Did you do this all in the same day?
--------------------------------
1. X-C for a rating has to over 50 nm, with a landing.
2. (135 experience can use...) All other X-C is anytime you navigate to another airport and land. (Even if it is 5 miles away, you still used pilotage and goes into the log book as such.)
3. For your ATP Certificate you need X-C time over 50 nm way, but this says you don't have to actually land for it to count if you are over 50 nm away.
---------------------------------
These three cover every single possibility.
If you put them all on different lines it doesn't matter or if you put them all on one line....still doesn't matter.
You put the total x-c time in the x-c column.
I suggest two x-c columns. One for over >50 and another for all x-c.
Gleim has a good log book in that regard.
Did you do this all in the same day?
--------------------------------
1. X-C for a rating has to over 50 nm, with a landing.
2. (135 experience can use...) All other X-C is anytime you navigate to another airport and land. (Even if it is 5 miles away, you still used pilotage and goes into the log book as such.)
3. For your ATP Certificate you need X-C time over 50 nm way, but this says you don't have to actually land for it to count if you are over 50 nm away.
---------------------------------
These three cover every single possibility.
If you put them all on different lines it doesn't matter or if you put them all on one line....still doesn't matter.
You put the total x-c time in the x-c column.
I suggest two x-c columns. One for over >50 and another for all x-c.
Gleim has a good log book in that regard.
tgrayson
New Member
From the old Part 61 faq's:
QUESTION: What is the definition or an interpretation of the term “original point of departure” contained in § 61.129(b)(3)(iii).
ANSWER: Ref. § 61.129(b)(3)(iii) There is no definition of the term “original point of departure” in Parts 1 or 61 or any other FAA publication. Each situation is unique and a definitive definition of “original point of departure” that will cover all circumstances and situations is not practicable nor possible.
Departure for the purpose of conducting a “round robin” cross-country flight is a normal scenario where “original point of departure” and destination are the same. The “original point of departure” does not change with a new day or delay.
Other examples include:
1. The purpose of repositioning (emphasis: purpose of repositioning) the aircraft to another airport, to start a cross-country flight in order to meet the 250 nautical miles cross-country requirements of § 61.129(a)(4)(i).
2. A person departs the Los Angeles International Airport on day 1 for the purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the San Jose Airport (emphasis purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the San Jose Airport) and remains overnight. On day 2, that person departs San Jose Airport for the purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the Lake Tahoe Airport (emphasis purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the Lake Tahoe Airport) and remains overnight. On day 3, that person departs Lake Tahoe Airport for the purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the Los Angeles Intl. Airport (emphasis purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the Los Angeles Intl. Airport) for termination. Which airport is the “original point of departure?” All 3 airports would qualify as the “original point of departure.”
3. Now in a similar situation, but slightly different, a person departs the Los Angeles International Airport for the purpose of conducting a round-robin (without ever landing enroute) cross-country flight from the Los Angeles International Airport to the San Diego, CA 030° radial at 12 DME to the Yuma, AZ 350° radial at 10 DME and then returns to the Los Angeles Intl. Airport (emphasis purpose of conducting a “round-robin” cross-country flight). Which airport is the “original point of departure?” The Los Angeles International Airport is the “original point of departure”. But this cross-country flight will not qualify for you applicants in pursuit of a private pilot certificate, commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating. However, if this flight were conducted by a pilot who already holds a commercial pilot certificate, the flight is creditable for the ATP certificate cross-country requirement.
Adherence to these strict definitions of cross-country and the “original point of departure” is only necessary when the purpose is for crediting cross-country aeronautical experience for the furtherance of a pilot certificate and rating. Cross-country aeronautical experience acquired in pursuit of a private pilot certificate, commercial pilot certificate, and an instrument rating must meet the requirements of § 61.1(b)(3)(ii) or (iii) with a landing beyond 50 nautical miles for airplanes or 25 nautical miles for rotorcraft from the original point of departure. Cross-country aeronautical experience acquired in pursuit of an airline transport pilot certificate (except rotorcraft category) must meet the requirements of § 61.1(b)(3)(iv) and military pilots’ cross-country aeronautical experience is addressed in § 61.1(b)(3)(v).
If the cross-country is NOT being utilized for the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience for the furtherance of a pilot certificate, then that cross-country flight time may be logged in accordance with § 61.1(b)(3)(i).
The time logged in a flight simulator or flight training device cannot be credited toward meeting the cross-country aeronautical experience. § 61.1(b)(3) states in part, “time acquired during a FLIGHT. . .” and “. . . Conducted in an appropriate AIRCRAFT” Consequently, the time logged in a flight simulator or flight training device cannot be credited toward meeting the cross-country aeronautical experience.
QUESTION: What is the definition or an interpretation of the term “original point of departure” contained in § 61.129(b)(3)(iii).
ANSWER: Ref. § 61.129(b)(3)(iii) There is no definition of the term “original point of departure” in Parts 1 or 61 or any other FAA publication. Each situation is unique and a definitive definition of “original point of departure” that will cover all circumstances and situations is not practicable nor possible.
Departure for the purpose of conducting a “round robin” cross-country flight is a normal scenario where “original point of departure” and destination are the same. The “original point of departure” does not change with a new day or delay.
Other examples include:
1. The purpose of repositioning (emphasis: purpose of repositioning) the aircraft to another airport, to start a cross-country flight in order to meet the 250 nautical miles cross-country requirements of § 61.129(a)(4)(i).
2. A person departs the Los Angeles International Airport on day 1 for the purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the San Jose Airport (emphasis purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the San Jose Airport) and remains overnight. On day 2, that person departs San Jose Airport for the purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the Lake Tahoe Airport (emphasis purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the Lake Tahoe Airport) and remains overnight. On day 3, that person departs Lake Tahoe Airport for the purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the Los Angeles Intl. Airport (emphasis purpose of conducting a cross-country flight to the Los Angeles Intl. Airport) for termination. Which airport is the “original point of departure?” All 3 airports would qualify as the “original point of departure.”
3. Now in a similar situation, but slightly different, a person departs the Los Angeles International Airport for the purpose of conducting a round-robin (without ever landing enroute) cross-country flight from the Los Angeles International Airport to the San Diego, CA 030° radial at 12 DME to the Yuma, AZ 350° radial at 10 DME and then returns to the Los Angeles Intl. Airport (emphasis purpose of conducting a “round-robin” cross-country flight). Which airport is the “original point of departure?” The Los Angeles International Airport is the “original point of departure”. But this cross-country flight will not qualify for you applicants in pursuit of a private pilot certificate, commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating. However, if this flight were conducted by a pilot who already holds a commercial pilot certificate, the flight is creditable for the ATP certificate cross-country requirement.
Adherence to these strict definitions of cross-country and the “original point of departure” is only necessary when the purpose is for crediting cross-country aeronautical experience for the furtherance of a pilot certificate and rating. Cross-country aeronautical experience acquired in pursuit of a private pilot certificate, commercial pilot certificate, and an instrument rating must meet the requirements of § 61.1(b)(3)(ii) or (iii) with a landing beyond 50 nautical miles for airplanes or 25 nautical miles for rotorcraft from the original point of departure. Cross-country aeronautical experience acquired in pursuit of an airline transport pilot certificate (except rotorcraft category) must meet the requirements of § 61.1(b)(3)(iv) and military pilots’ cross-country aeronautical experience is addressed in § 61.1(b)(3)(v).
If the cross-country is NOT being utilized for the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience for the furtherance of a pilot certificate, then that cross-country flight time may be logged in accordance with § 61.1(b)(3)(i).
The time logged in a flight simulator or flight training device cannot be credited toward meeting the cross-country aeronautical experience. § 61.1(b)(3) states in part, “time acquired during a FLIGHT. . .” and “. . . Conducted in an appropriate AIRCRAFT” Consequently, the time logged in a flight simulator or flight training device cannot be credited toward meeting the cross-country aeronautical experience.