SWA In Trouble ?

It will be interesting to see how they handle this.

Will they continue to be the "White Knight" of the industry, or will it become another airline?
 
It's inevitable that they'll become "another airline." The operating market in the US seemingly has become almost a public utility for most passengers with the according pricing yet the industry continues to use technology that was largely designed for another era when regulation was the law of the land and business models were much different.
 
It's inevitable that they'll become "another airline." The operating market in the US seemingly has become almost a public utility for most passengers with the according pricing yet the industry continues to use technology that was largely designed for another era when regulation was the law of the land and business models were much different.


Did you learn that in your economics class? ;)

I would have said, its due to the over expansion of SWA. Too much,too soon. I think the move into the NYC market was a little pre-mature.
 
Did you learn that in your economics class? ;)

I would have said, its due to the over expansion of SWA. Too much,too soon. I think the move into the NYC market was a little pre-mature.

America West did similar with their lease of 747s in the early '90s and a rapid move into Hawaii and Japan routes. May have worked had Desert Storm not occurred and had the Japan route had more demand.
 
All us armchair airline managers just wondered "what the hell were they thinking" when WN started coming into PHL, and thought it was an anomoly.

Although hearing them tell ground they're ready to go when they were #1 on Mike and a long line was on Sierra, and the ground guy laughing at them, was well worth it.

I think the move into LGA is capitulation that they lost their marketing mojo.
 
All us armchair airline managers just wondered "what the hell were they thinking" when WN started coming into PHL, and thought it was an anomoly.

Although hearing them tell ground they're ready to go when they were #1 on Mike and a long line was on Sierra, and the ground guy laughing at them, was well worth it.

I think the move into LGA is capitulation that they lost their marketing mojo.
Sad to see the "marketing mojo" go away. I know a few people that work there and they say it feels quite a bit like other companies talk now. It takes forever to get anything changed, blah blah blah...
 
Sad to see the "marketing mojo" go away. I know a few people that work there and they say it feels quite a bit like other companies talk now. It takes forever to get anything changed, blah blah blah...

When they went to PHL, they left their niche.

I think the failure to success ratio is not in favor of airlines leaving their marketing plan. I don't wish ill on SWA, but just an observation.

The next announcement will be about a return to their roots, or origins, or something to that affect when they abandon the clogged hubs.
 
When they went to PHL, they left their niche.

I think the failure to success ratio is not in favor of airlines leaving their marketing plan.

P74,

You may be onto something but only time will tell. It'd be a shame to see them hit really serious troubles as they've been the one glimmer of hope over the last few decades that intelligent management does exist (a good part of which is seeing that treating the employees well in a service industry just might be a good move ) . Part of that was finding the niche, filling it and staying in it.

As I've watched them grow from humble beginnings in 1971 to an industry leader, I've wondered when scale effect/economy/management changes would start to pull them off the formula that got them where they are.

I guess a business has to grow to stay alive and prosper but how/where that growth takes place is also part of the formula.

Times are tough for all segments of the economy lately but I'd love to see SWA continue to show the rest of the industry how it should be done.

I'm rootin' for 'em.
 
When they went to PHL, they left their niche.

I would agree that they left their niche, but I don't think they are hurting too bad because of it.

I have had delaying vectors that put me behind a SWA 737 who checked in with approach control well after we did. I have also seen them taxi around the conga line and be put in front of several airplanes that have been waiting patiently to depart.
 
P74,

You may be onto something but only time will tell. It'd be a shame to see them hit really serious troubles as they've been the one glimmer of hope over the last few decades that intelligent management does exist (a good part of which is seeing that treating the employees well in a service industry just might be a good move ) . Part of that was finding the niche, filling it and staying in it.

As I've watched them grow from humble beginnings in 1971 to an industry leader, I've wondered when scale effect/economy/management changes would start to pull them off the formula that got them where they are.

I guess a business has to grow to stay alive and prosper but how/where that growth takes place is also part of the formula.

Times are tough for all segments of the economy lately but I'd love to see SWA continue to show the rest of the industry how it should be done.

I'm rootin' for 'em.

Agreed. I hope they are able to make changes and grow organically. The interesting part will be to see if the business model that made them so successful can be adapted to, what appears to be, a new vector for them.

I would agree that they left their niche, but I don't think they are hurting too bad because of it.

I have had delaying vectors that put me behind a SWA 737 who checked in with approach control well after we did. I have also seen them taxi around the conga line and be put in front of several airplanes that have been waiting patiently to depart.

Last time I had experience with that was in '07. I got to taxi past the conga line too, depending on the direction of departure.

What I see though, is how do keep the airplanes moving like WN has had the trademark on for years, when you're in the same places that have ridiculous delays they have no control over. Someplace like LGA, you're in line and that's it. There would be a taxiway mutiny if they let WN cut the line. Not out of competitive throws, just because one can only sit on DD for so long.

Best of luck to them, and all of us.....

However, once wegougeemandhow airways gets the first Clippership (We're still actively recruiting for our development program!!), we'll take the MAT back over and we won't have any delays because we won't need a runway.
 
When I saw it happen, they were going the same direction as everyone else...

Commies.

At wegougeemandhow airways inc. llp. co., delays are history as we take to the water.

Add PHL seaport to the destinations. PHL seaport to the MAT. We're already setting up our northern route structure to complement the MIA-HAV service.

That's more planes and more jobs. I should be a Clipper CA before I know it!!
 
Commies.

At wegougeemandhow airways inc. llp. co., delays are history as we take to the water.

Add PHL seaport to the destinations. PHL seaport to the MAT. We're already setting up our northern route structure to complement the MIA-HAV service.

I like the way you think!

That's more planes and more jobs. I should be a Clipper CA before I know it!!

What do you mean should be... we are the owners, if we want the Captain's seat, we take the Captains seat!
 
SWA went into PHL to go after Airways. They had driven them out of PIT (well, actually, they left PIT because of the ACAA but SWA took a few years to figure that out) and figured if they could bounce them from PHL they might finish them off. Once they got there (and realized there was no way Airways was going to give up the hub) they found a way to make their operation work and make money. The problem is, the way they did it (using the same planes and crews for lines that go through PHL so a delay doesn't cascade through the system) only works when you have VERY limited number of delay prone hubs. When you start adding more of those all bets are off.
 
I like the way you think!

Well, that's two of us.....



What do you mean should be... we are the owners, if we want the Captain's seat, we take the Captains seat!

Point taken, I didn't realize I was included.

Maybe mjg and I can divvy up the DE duties. One on the 314 and one on the Mars.

we could get mikec as the official prop polisher......
 
Absolutely! You are listed as one of the original 5.

I'm glad wegougeemandhow has low standards and continually fails to meet them.



hmmm... much rather leave the prop polishing for our PFJ trainees, but...

We do need somebody experienced with weather to crack the whip on an idea I have...

Always liked his attitude

mike is an experienced "prop polisher" hehehehe and I think would be duly qualified to show others his "technique".

Just make sure HR stays away from his work space.
 
When they went to PHL, they left their niche.

I think the failure to success ratio is not in favor of airlines leaving their marketing plan. I don't wish ill on SWA, but just an observation.

The next announcement will be about a return to their roots, or origins, or something to that affect when they abandon the clogged hubs.

They added the "SWA Extension" to 35 so it's now just over 6000'. The other day we were going pretty much the same direction (I think the same jet route) and requested 35 for departure and were denied, SWA requested 35 and it was approved.
 
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