Would you make this flight in a C172...

Douglas said:
:laff:
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It sounds like that trip was a great experience for you, I am glad and good job.
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No problem! Honestly, looking back, I don't think I would have made it out alive if I tried to stick it out to my destination.
 
PGT said:
No problem! Honestly, looking back, I don't think I would have made it out alive if I tried to stick it out to my destination.
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I don't want to say this to make you push the envelope, but you'd be surprised how far you can push it.

Right now your perspective on what your skills and your aircraft can handle are very limited. You've very much been in the training bubble we all get started in, and the idea of flying through precip in a single is a daunting concept. But, with a tiny bit of planning and discussion with ATC, you can make a lot of things happen.

As an example, you might have been able to deviate south or north maybe 50 miles while talking with flight watch or ATC about where the precip is. That could have gotten you out of it quickly, and got you to your destination a few minutes later. Jets constantly do things like this, and taking a deviation left or right for weather is as normal as getting a USA Today from your layover hotel.

Further, if you had something like say a Garmin 396 with weather on it, you could have done the deviating yourself. It's amazing the amount of data you can get into a GA cockpit these days. I remember a few years back when I was still flight instructing, taking a G1000 from College Station to Arlington with Propilots brother. We were both pretty green CFI's, but the thing had XM weather in it and it made the evening a lot easier to deal with. We knew there were multiple embedded thunderestorms out there, so our plan? See them on the XM, and then give them a VERY wide berth. XM weather isn't too accurate, but it'll give you an idea of which way to deviate so you don't have to deal with plugging holes in weather you shouldn't be anywhere near.

There are also some other tools that you'll eventually find out about, like asking to take vectors down to MVA from ATC. Tell them you're picking up ice, and you need to get down RIGHT NOW, and they'll take you down to MVA. Also as MikeD said, you should always have a sectional chart in the plane so you can tell what the terrain features are below you, and where any towers exist around you. Garmin also has a great database of this stuff in some of their GNS 430/530 units that can help you out in that regard.

Point being, and again not to second guess your decision making, or to tell you to push it, but the more you do these kinds of flights you'll have a better idea of what you should or should not do during these flights. You made the right decision diverting because of weather, I've had to do it myself a bunch of times. But the more you do this, the more you'll find out how far you can go while still remaining safe.

As for me? I've got different concepts of what moderate precip are because I've had difference experiences than you. I'm also incredibly willing to tell ATC to shove it and deviate as necessary to complete a flight safely. At 160 hours, you're probably not willing to tell THEM what you're going to be doing, and if they don't like it you can declare an emergency. The first time you lose your cockpit lighting at night, outflow valve at FL180, boots in ice and half your six pack in IMC all at the same time, you realize that it's not ATC's butt strapped into the hunk of flying crap that's trying to get you killed when they won't let you descend out of ice and clouds.

All in all a great experience for you. Keep doing it, you'll find out exactly what you can, and can not do with your airframe. And make sure you keep taking flights like these, because too many people come out of flight programs as cookie cutter pilots who never have to make any decisions. You're getting real experience out there that will pay out huge dividends in the years to come as you move into the world of professional aviation and being paid to complete flights safely and, if possible, on time.
 
PGT said:
A JCer is telling me this flight is safe in a C172...I say no.


TAF:
KDSM 201606Z 2016/2112 18015G22KT P6SM BKN090
FM210300 16012KT P6SM VCSH OVC040
FM210700 15009KT P6SM BKN035

Halfway point:
KCID 201420Z 2014/2112 14010KT 3SM BR SCT090
FM201500 14012KT 5SM BR BKN090
FM201700 14012G20KT P6SM BKN120
FM210000 15012KT P6SM VCSH OVC060
FM210600 14008KT 6SM BR VCSH OVC035
TEMPO 2106/2109 5SM -RA BR

KORD 201126Z 2012/2118 VRB03KT P6SM FEW020
FM201500 11007KT P6SM SCT200
FM201900 13007KT P6SM BKN080 BKN200
FM202200 11008KT P6SM BKN080 BKN200
FM210200 14006KT P6SM BKN060 OVC100
FM211500 18012KT P6SM BKN050

Departing Chicago at 6-7PM, arrive in DSM at 9-10PM

Radar:
Moving SE
clipboard01qgm.jpg
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I don't see any problem with it. I'd make the flight VFR or IFR. Either or. If you're starting to get ice IFR, descend out of the clouds. Also, be advised, the 172 isn't going to fall out of the sky as soon as you get trace ice provided you don't panic. That's the key. Stay smart and if you don't feel comfortable don't do it. Hell, I've had to do night cross countries at 1000AGL or less because of cx before, its not really a big deal as long as you make sure that you have an escape plan.
 
CRM from the boards. That's a decent idea. Any reason you didn't bring along another experienced IFR dude? Intro them to the group and all. It's not always about being alone and unafraid as the PIC.

Personal mins are one thing, but there's nothing wrong with having another experienced IR pilot along for the ride.

Mil guys know about experience levels and how they factor in. If you're inexperienced, there's nothing wrong with ID'ing it, planning appropriately (diverts / Go - NoGo, etc.) and flying the mission within the briefed criteria.

Some of the best learning I've ever experienced when low-time was realized after flying with an instructor in conditions I just wasn't 100% about.
 
BajtheJino said:
So there was icing?
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No I was in it for a few min and managed to avoid the worst part of it but I would have gone right through the worst part of the storm if I continued my flight. From reading up on ice I definitely think I would have picked some up. Now it might have been light rime or clear, who knows, I didn't want to find out :)

I am glad I went, definitely an interesting experience and it made for a good story with girls around at the bar last night "...I was soo iced up the airplane was barley flying..." I might have stretched the truth a bit. They thought it was very cool :D
 
PGT said:
No I was in it for a few min and managed to avoid the worst part of it but I would have gone right through the worst part of the storm if I continued my flight. From reading up on ice I definitely think I would have picked some up. Now it might have been light rime or clear, who knows, I didn't want to find out :)

I am glad I went, definitely an interesting experience and it made for a good story with girls around at the bar last night "...I was soo iced up the airplane was barley flying..." I might have stretched the truth a bit. They thought it was very cool :D
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So you didn't pick up any ice but you turned around? That's fine if you didn't feel comfy with the conditions, but prolly not what I would have done, apples and oranges. Not to sunday-qb it, all in all, good call on your part.
 
Nope, I was sure I would have picked up some if I would have continued. Percip was along entire length of flight...~2 hours.
 
Not overly likely to pick up ice in rain showers. Maybe in the colder clouds above the precip though.
 
SteveC said:
Not overly likely to pick up ice in rain showers. Maybe in the colder clouds above the precip though.
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Indeed. Ice is an interesting thing, and you can fly through a cloud that *COULD* produce ice and never actually get any on your airplane, or you could get iced up in a matter of minutes.
 
I don't know, during training they said I would pick up ice most likely and ice is bad so when I was presented with the situation I was like oh wow, they said ice would form in these kinds of conditions so I got out of there. I don't have the experience yet to know what will/might/might not happen so I'm still conservative.

CN94559 said:
I fly in that kinda weather all the time here in TX. honestly, thats a good day
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...yea where the freezing level is at 10,000 and not SFC most of the time
 
I don't see any problem with that flight, but like its been said a million times if you don't feel comfortable then don't do it.

4 Pages!?!?! Really??????
 
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