Douglas
Old School KSUX
I can't believe how many people took that statement as being 100% literal.
Who in aviation believes in anything 100% of the time.
Complex Endorsement Training Time
- Thread starter Wing_96
- Start date
I can't believe how many people took that statement as being 100% literal.
Who in aviation believes in anything 100% of the time.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I didn't read that post as saying that someone thought a pilot needed 10 hours, just that the flight school required it. A lot of FBOs have a 10-hour time in type or 10-hour dual requirement for soloing in a complex - usually based on insurance requirements.
Maybe you're right and the school actually had a rule that said that one of their CFIs wasn't allowed to give the endorsement until insurance requirements for solo in the school's airplanes were met. That would be a bit unusual and I'd agree with your criticism of it.
BrewMaster
Well-Known Member
I can't believe how many people took that statement as being 100% literal.
Who in aviation believes in anything 100% of the time.
I believe everything 60% of the time, EVERY TIME!
Seriously though, this is how easy it can happen, what's that loud annoying buzz? If you listen close enough, I think they are talking about a phone number. Also, notice how the engine is running and how uneventful the landing is. Don't cut the engines!
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Douglas
Old School KSUX
That is a good video.
Three in the plane, and one actually video tapes where the gear are supposed to be.
I always think that he says, "I went back there, the day after to find my gloves that I left there..."
If that is what he said then there is no way it wasn't an accident.
Three in the plane, and one actually video tapes where the gear are supposed to be.
I always think that he says, "I went back there, the day after to find my gloves that I left there..."
If that is what he said then there is no way it wasn't an accident.
richarms
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
Excellent observation. Stopping the prop usually takes a very slow speed and/or high angle of attack not to mention the time to accomplish plus bumping the starter to put a two blade prop horizontal. Not a good choice close in.
BrewMaster
Well-Known Member
I really can't tell, either way it was a definate goof-up. I feel pretty bad for the guy when he slaps the top of the panel. That can't be fun.
29.92inHg
Well-Known Member
I show that video in Brewmaster's post to everyone of my complex students on the first lesson. Mainly to demonstrate why I don't want to hear the gear horn without something to remedy it (ie power off 180... bump the power to 12in or drop the gear) Gear horn desensitisation is always a fear in the back of my mind. That video shows you how bad it can be.
cool92092
Well-Known Member
Great thread, some really informative stuff. This is why I really enjoy coming to this place. On a side note all ATP mills tell you to try and save the props on a forced gear up landing. If I remember correctly they even make sure you can recite that before they send you out on cross country without an instructor. Tells you something about their priorities.
wjmiller3
Well-Known Member
Where and who told you this nonsense? Never have I heard this from anyone at ATP, and I damn sure didn't teach it there.
29.92inHg
Well-Known Member
We had the conversation when I was at ATP, but ultimately came up with the leave it running train of thought. The biggest problem at the time was the King Air that landed gear up at FTY (youtube) shortly before I was there and feathered both of his props, and landed perfectly. We decided he was just a badass and we weren't remotely prepared for that maneuver. It is a good video, but not something that should be taught in the context of this thread (giving someone a complex endorsement)
Then again for you to hear that all it would take is one instructor mentioning it to you. I'm pretty sure its not taught in Standardization (not sure though, never instructed there)
Then again for you to hear that all it would take is one instructor mentioning it to you. I'm pretty sure its not taught in Standardization (not sure though, never instructed there)
cool92092
Well-Known Member
ATP SUA - initial multi through 302 ride i believe it was called,
Fulton County ATL - from both management & instructors during cfi school
I may have misled with my initial post that they forced this on you as a part of the procedure, but more so encouraged it if the situation permitted
I have a question that may or may not add to the discussion. Would it be possible that a spinning prop, multi engine or single, could have enough force on impact with the ground to flip an airplane? This could be either a roll or possible impact the ground and cause the plane to tumble.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Not that I have ever heard of.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
If it did, gear up landings in a prop airplane would result in airplanes flipping over almost every time.
Not likely. The prop will bend first. BTW, I tried to finish the complex/high perf. endorsement with a student yesterday, I distracted him and pulled the breaker for the gear pump, and had to take the controls at 150 AGL. Why do some people just not seem to get it. If you pull the lever, and don't hear the pump----SOMETHING IS WRONG. Does everyone else teach to leave the hand on the gear lever untill the gear is down and locked?
I didn't really think it would matter much but its still one of those things that just runs through my mind when contemplating the possibilities.
And I always teach to leave the hand on the lever until 3 green. In my case in the seneca it's '3 green, no red, one in the mirror' with the hand on the lever
And I always teach to leave the hand on the lever until 3 green. In my case in the seneca it's '3 green, no red, one in the mirror' with the hand on the lever
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Yep.
On the hear the pump thing, I think the point is that there are a number of things that occur when the gear comes down - lights change, pumps and motors run, drag/airspeed changes occur, moment and pitch changes occur, etc. You focus first on the pump sound; I tend to focus first on the drag changes. We both use the tactile reminder of hand on the gear handle until the change is complete.
I think the ultimate goal is that the pilot should be made aware of all of the changes that occur so that multiple senses are brought to the task of monitoring the gear coming down. Which one or combination of clues will be the key for a specific pilot will be to some degree be based on that individual's internal wiring.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
The DA42 it's really easy to hear the pump. The Duchess, I never did hear that thing...the rest of the airplane was too loud.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Correct, I've given someone a complex endorsement in 2 flights -- but then I told them that our insurance requirements required 10 hours of dual prior to solo, but they did have the endorsement!