I don't think it'd do jack, personally.
It's not going to go back up until we control the distribution of labor coupled with standing up for ourselves.
JetBlue Pilots vote against union
- Thread starter N826AW
- Start date
I don't think it'd do jack, personally.
It's not going to go back up until we control the distribution of labor coupled with standing up for ourselves.
KLB
Well-Known Member
I highly doubt it buddy. They probably had a better QOL than him and I did(well there's no probably to that. They absolutely have a better quality life than I can even dream of), but I'm pretty sure that they don't make more than we did. Especially since he's been primarily working out of CVG TDY.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
spbrian
Well-Known Member
Not a lot more but yup. Of course back to the topic it's not enough for my QOL, double wouldn't be enough nor would 4 times as much to keep doing this. Sure that would make it beareable for a bit but to give up any possibility of a family nope no way.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
I love the irony.
WacoFan
Bigly
You seem to have access to payrates currently as well as historically.
It would be interesting to see the pay rates from 1978 on small equipment - short little DC-9's, in 1978. TWA had them, NWA, not sure who else. Get some of the pay for those things, and then compare to regional equipment today (since that is what they were replaced with). In fact, if you can just get me the raw numbers, I will put a spreadsheet together with inflation factored in. This would be interesting to me.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
How many days off between those 4 day trips? In one month I had two 4 days and one 3 day. That was it for the month. If I hadn't upgraded, I'd probably be look at less than that with about 5 days off in between. With the 2-3 day trips, you might not be looking at as many days off in between. Nice thing about 4 days, is they normally pretty much tap you out on the 30/7 issue.
KLB
Well-Known Member
Put it this way. I only flew the metro six months last year and I made more than that. It's because I get paid six or seven days a week rather than only five. Like I said, QOL sucks! Pay is great though. It would be nice to be getting paid the same and only be working 4 days a week though.
Velocipede
New Member
Hacker, read some history. In the old CAB days, regulation allowed the airlines to pass their costs on to the consumers because the gov't limited the number of airlines that could serve a market.
Deregulation was envisioned as a way to make it cheaper for consumers. Unfortunately, the easiet cost for management to control is labor. Fuel and capital are essentially fixed costs.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I just got clued into your pay structure out there, I was going based off standard non TDY guys.
spbrian
Well-Known Member
Yup, mine is a little different being system TDY as a bidded line. But still, I have no life, no hope for a life and I have given up way too much.... Oh, beers make Canada seem beter!!
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
If anyone paid more than lip-service to caring about it, I'd be extremely curious to see the results of a study regarding the number of 135 accidents vs. QOL, measured, perhaps, by time spent at home or hours flown.
Luckily for us, no one cares, and in the end, it'll be pilot error. Something to be said for predictability.
Luckily for us, no one cares, and in the end, it'll be pilot error. Something to be said for predictability.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I used to when I was an ALPA rep, but not anymore. The numbers I have for Pan Am 747 Captains came from research I did a number of years ago for an article I wrote for our pilots at PCL. I'm not sure if ended up using the Pan Am number in the article, since it was just so incredibly high, but I used numbers from a number of other carriers dating back quite a ways. I'll dig around and see if I can find that article to see if it had anything from those days for smaller equipment. Otherwise, you'd have to get someone that has access to the ALPA archives to dig it up for you.
WacoFan
Bigly
Do you remember TWA rates from back then? How did those guys do comparitively - near the top?
Never seemed like Grandpa was worried about money - he was with TWA from 1953 to 1984 (the year before Icahn bought them). He came home from Korea on a Friday (to Galesburg, Il where Grandma and the kids were) and on Monday he and Grandma drove to Chicago and he set about finding an airline pilots job. Drove around United's lot, American's, and some others, and finally saw a parking space by TWA so that is where he went first. Walked his resume in (lots of B-25, B-24 and a little B-29 time from WWII and then his Korea time) and they interviewed him then and told him to be in Kansas City in two weeks for training - so they loaded up the car and came. People asked him why he "chose" TWA and his answer was that they had the first parking spot he saw. Worked out well for him.
That's a cool story. Is your grandpa still around?
skydog
New Member
With reregulation, the number of airline pilot jobs would plummet. It was deregulation and competition that caused the boom growth years of the 80's and early 90's. So while you might have those Pan Am +30 year payrates, the ticket cost to the consumer would be so high that no one would be able to afford to travel. Capacity reductions, furloughs, 1 pilot job for every 100 applicants. Be careful what you wish for.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Bulls---. The general economic boom of the '80s and '90s caused the rapid expansion of airline travel, not de-regulation. Nothing more than a myth.
pullup
Homewrecker
Doesn't matter. You want to make 300K+, good luck getting customers to pay for it. This is the era of cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.
WacoFan
Bigly
Nope, retired in 1984 and died in 1991.
That is the reason I am stuck in this hellhole (KC). He had a runway in his backyard (turf), a couple of Waco's (an open and a cabin), two Howard DGA's, an Aeronca Chief, a Monoprep and a building behind the hanger full of engines and parts (Jacobs, Pratt's, Ham Std. props, a spare Velie (for the Monoprep), C-65 Continentals, and tons of parts.
Anyway, of all the 5 kids and 9 grandkids, I was the only one to learn to fly or take an interest in the airplanes. So, when he got sick and then died, I came up here from Houston to help my Grandma deal with the airplane stuff, the grounds (lots of mowing), and help her. I figured I would be here 6 months and go back. Well, took longer to sell the airplanes/parts, met a girl (ended up marrying her) and now all these years later I am still waiting to go back to Texas. There is a video in the lav in the thread about health care that tells what happened between then and now.
WacoFan
Bigly
Again, it would be interesting to see the numbers and do the math. Look at the fuel crisis that happened last summer for an example. It would be interesting to take 1978 pilot pay and then adjust it for inflation. Take that figure, plug it into the financials of the airlines now, estimate oil at around $50 bbl (I think that is where the Saudi's want it) and see what you have. PCL has told me that the pilot pay is not as extreme a factor as one would think, but I like to see the numbers. Anyway, compare the numbers on this study to what happened during the oil shock this summer and then see what you have.