Acronyms and Mnemonics

Roger said:
I'm guessing it is in part 23 or 33, under certification of aircraft or engines. I'm fairly sure that I remember reading in one of my A&P classes that a carbureted engine must have carb heat that can raise the temperature x number of degrees (for a normally aspirated engine I want to say it's 90 degrees).

*edit* Ha! 14 CFR 23.1093
(a) Reciprocating engines. Each reciprocating engine air induction system must have means to prevent and eliminate icing. Unless this is done by other means, it must be shown that, in air free of visible moisture at a temperature of 30 °F—
(1) Each airplane with sea level engines using conventional venturi carburetors has a preheater that can provide a heat rise of 90 °F. with the engines at 75 percent of maximum continuous power;
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Correct. If you ever get to the western side of the state, I'll pay up.
 
Blackhawk said:
Correct. If you ever get to the western side of the state, I'll pay up.
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Sweet. Though if I ever make it out that far, it will be in an airplane and I'll have to do with a non-alcoholic beverage.
 
I have to give you instructor guys props. I have seen many questions posed on here and usually in no time at all, the answer is presented. Sometimes with a little debate but the correct answer always comes out. I am not an instructor and it would take me a week to find some of this stuff.

If anyone thinks that instructing is not worth their time, I think they are making a mistake. It really proves the point that teaching something makes you learn it inside and out.

Kudo's to you guys.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
The problem is that my informal surveying suggests that most people are indeed led to believe that 91.205 is all there is. That's the problem with elevating 91.205 to special status bu forcing it to be memorized.

Over the past, oh, 10 years or so, I've periodically posted a simple question in various pilot forums asking about the airworthiness of an airplane with a specific piece of equipment missing that is not covered by 91.205. I also include an inop equipment question when I do flight reviews, and even checkouts for people I haven't flown with.

The result has been that those who learned the burning fruit or disturbed cat mnemonics are more likely to get the question wrong than those who never even heard of it. I've even seen CFIs get it wrong.

To the original question, the only two mnemonics I will even refer to in teaching as being somewhat useful for some people are GUMP (the original, no extra letters) for complex aircraft and the 5-Ts (not 6 or 7 or 22) during instrument training.
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I was wondering when you'd jump in on "TOMATOFLAMES".
 
It seems the problem people have with TOMATOFLAME or MATOF^2 is when it is taught as the end all be all for aircraft airworthiness. We all agree it's not. The way it was taught to me was that they are an easy way to remember Day VFR required instuments. And that's they way i teach it.

Is that wrong? I don't know maybe. thought it wasn't at the begining of this thread now i'm not so sure. That being how I teach it, my students also fully understand MELs, TDC, and equipment lists. I don't think i am doing them any harm in teaching them MATOF^2.
 
esa17 said:
According to my former FAA POI, multiple examiners, and the Orlando FSDO a pilot will bust his PPL oral if he even says "ATOMATOFLAMES" or something similar.
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OTOH, I had a student who did his PPL and, after the ride, the Examiner said to me in surprise, "you student didn't know TOMATO FLAMES." Pretty interesting comment especially considering that during the oral, the student described how he found a discrepancy in the aircraft logs that everyone had missed for months and rejected the first airplane scheduled for the ride.
 
poser765 said:
It seems the problem people have with TOMATOFLAME or MATOF^2 is when it is taught as the end all be all for aircraft airworthiness. We all agree it's not. The way it was taught to me was that they are an easy way to remember Day VFR required instuments.
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The problem is that many students are left with the impression that it covers =all= of the equipment that is required for day VFR flight.
 
poser765 said:
Would that not be a failure of the instructor as opposed to a failure of the method?
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When the problem continuously repeats it becomes a failure of the method, which is why I don't have my pilots learn it any more. For some reason pilots remember the acronym and not the method necessary for checking maintenance. Maybe it's the intensity of TOMATOFLAMES, or the ease of remembering it verses remembering 91.213. Whatever the reason I see as a recuring problem.
 
Blackhawk said:
When the problem continuously repeats it becomes a failure of the method, which is why I don't have my pilots learn it any more. For some reason pilots remember the acronym and not the method necessary for checking maintenance. Maybe it's the intensity of TOMATOFLAMES, or the ease of remembering it verses remembering 91.213. Whatever the reason I see as a recuring problem.
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Gotcha...good point. Will have to meditate on that more.
 
Perhaps we need a new mnemonic to cover the multiple steps of 91.213.
Type certification (Day VFR)
KOEL
91.205
ADs
Safe flight (pilot's discretion)
Any takers?

Though I know the FAA did publish a really nice flow chart on this whole issue a while back. I seem to remember seeing it posted somewhere on these forums too. If anyone has a link to that handy, it would be quite appropriate for this thread.
 
Roger said:
Perhaps we need a new mnemonic to cover the multiple steps of 91.213.
Type certification (Day VFR)
KOEL
91.205
ADs
Safe flight (pilot's discretion)
Any takers?

Though I know the FAA did publish a really nice flow chart on this whole issue a while back. I seem to remember seeing it posted somewhere on these forums too. If anyone has a link to that handy, it would be quite appropriate for this thread.
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I would not want the pilot to try and remember this- there is no need. Pilots should only memorize those things that really need to be memorized. Even now if I need to defer something in my airplane or a rental airplane I go to FAR 91.213 and start there.
 
Roger said:
Though I know the FAA did publish a really nice flow chart on this whole issue a while back. I seem to remember seeing it posted somewhere on these forums too. If anyone has a link to that handy, it would be quite appropriate for this thread.
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AC 91-67 is pretty good. So is FAA order 8900.1 Chapter 4, Section 2, figure 4-42.
 
Blackhawk said:
When the problem continuously repeats it becomes a failure of the method, which is why I don't have my pilots learn it any more. For some reason pilots remember the acronym and not the method necessary for checking maintenance. Maybe it's the intensity of TOMATOFLAMES, or the ease of remembering it verses remembering 91.213. Whatever the reason I see as a recuring problem.
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That's a very good way of putting it.

I think the "for some reason" is simple. When you assign a mnemonic to something as an aid to memorization, you are assigning it special importance. Here, you are saying, "of all of the airworthiness considerations that deal with equipment, 91.205 is the most important."
 
As a result of this, I am overhauling the way I teach inop equipment. I realized that though I know the right answers, I'm not emphasizing the right stuff with my students. To all y'all that had input in this one, thanks! This is why I joined this place.


...that, and so I could post the Vanilla Ice video in every thread that talks about icing.
 
Roger said:
Perhaps we need a new mnemonic to cover the multiple steps of 91.213.
Type certification (Day VFR)
KOEL
91.205
ADs
Safe flight (pilot's discretion)
Any takers?

Though I know the FAA did publish a really nice flow chart on this whole issue a while back. I seem to remember seeing it posted somewhere on these forums too. If anyone has a link to that handy, it would be quite appropriate for this thread.
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When I was in instrument training, my instructor taught me

F FAR 91.205
A Airworthiness directives
T Type certification/type of operation

A Aircraft equipment list
S Safety of flight

D If not required by any of the above, equipment must be deactivated and placarded inop.
 
Interesting. I have the flowchart from AC 91-67 posted on my wall now.
 
This one made me remember it (and I wasn't even studying to be a pilot at all)!

My Hairy Red B---- Make Babies. (Use your imagination for the blanks)
 
91.213

That was something asked on most stage checks I had during training. More schools should ask about this.

I called it the 4 step test. 91.213 (d) (2) i, ii, iii, iv
 
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