Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Do you understand the fact that they don't have ENOUGH pilots to fill their seats? That's why they have to recruit foreigners.
NOT Good!
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
Do you understand the fact that they don't have ENOUGH pilots to fill their seats? That's why they have to recruit foreigners.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Just one second. . .
Define what BOTH ways you're speaking of. . .I'm eager to know.
One way, protecting American jobs.
Second way, saying it's okay for Americans to go overseas to fly.
Yes, actually we can have it both ways believe it or not. Those countries are having their own issues with staffing, so they seek out qualified candidates. If, like in America, there was an amazingly large supply of pilots with an amazingly small demand (and a continuously decreasing demand as of late) in the countries you speak of then you might have some ground to stand on, but the fact is that those countries largely do not train enough pilots for their own demands and as such have to seek out qualified candidates from Australia, the United States, and Europe.
If your issue is with ex-patriots flying overseas and thinking that having outsourced workers coming into the states to fly work that should be flown by pilots off of the United Airlines seniority list are anywhere near the same thing I really don't know what else we can tell you. Seems your personal opinions are being trumped by the fact that the pilots have a contract, and that contract is a legal document.
No Sir, I'm afraid I haven't read this little gem. Care to link me? Even if it'll give me nightmares about our future. . .
That is not true, American recruits represent a very small percentage for SOME of these carriers. Still that is a separate issue, we are not doing intra Asia routes because Japan Airlines doesn't have enough pilots to fly from Soul to Tokyo
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Have empirical data to back that statement up?
I'll gladly shut my mouth if you can show me some data to back up your statement.
This is, for the most part, a pretty black and white issue.
United Pilots have a collective bargaining agreement with United Airlines Inc or whatever the hell the company is going by these days. . .whatever any of our personal opinions are, that document is the guidance that is to be followed. If, for the lack of a better phrase, the scope language provided an out for the company to do this, well. . .damn, now doesn't that just suck.
Doesn't change the fact that Glenn Tilton is an evil emperor who gets great enjoyment out of sticking it to his employees, especially the pilot group.
I'll gladly shut my mouth if you can show me some data to back up your statement.
This is, for the most part, a pretty black and white issue.
United Pilots have a collective bargaining agreement with United Airlines Inc or whatever the hell the company is going by these days. . .whatever any of our personal opinions are, that document is the guidance that is to be followed. If, for the lack of a better phrase, the scope language provided an out for the company to do this, well. . .damn, now doesn't that just suck.
Doesn't change the fact that Glenn Tilton is an evil emperor who gets great enjoyment out of sticking it to his employees, especially the pilot group.
You're confusing me with polar. What I am saying is right now there is a United Airlines 777 flying from Tokyo to Soul. Same thing as what AerLingus will be doing when flying from Dulles to Madrid. You can't have a double standard!
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Not that I'm fully aware of the legal or trade agreements that we have with Japan or South Korea, but I'm sure their government have approved those flights. Just as, our government will have to approve any foreign entity operating in violation of scope language of a domestic company's CBA with an employee group or any other associated legal hurdle. But, just because they approve it doesn't necessarily mean we are happy about the ramifications it has when related to job security for Americans.
I think there are a lot of things that we do not necessarily know about this latest venture, but we (as professional pilots) know that it is not good when United is sending people to the streets and yet they are actively seeking partners to fly routes that could have otherwise been flown by United airframes and crew.
I think there are a lot of things that we do not necessarily know about this latest venture, but we (as professional pilots) know that it is not good when United is sending people to the streets and yet they are actively seeking partners to fly routes that could have otherwise been flown by United airframes and crew.
Recruitment of Asian carriers is a different issue. Polar brought that up as if that is why we are doing those routes. It's simply not true.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
1) I didn't say AMERICAN. I said EXPATRIOT.
2) ICAO Fifth Freedom Rights.
3) Unfortunately, most countries where we excercise Fifth Freedom don't allow unionization. Thus their pilots can not protect their work. Here in the US, pilot groups are unionized and include SCOPE in their contracts to PROTECT their jobs. United is trying to contract out more work, just like they've done with their domestic routes, but on an international basis.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm beginning to think that fly8slep, jhugz, and aloft are all the same guy. They all make the same inane arguments. 
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
The way I read the article, it seemed like AerLingus was seeking out not UA. Otherwise if UA wanted they could simply just open up IAD to Madrid, why would one of the biggest airlines in the world seek foreign contracts to fly a route? It's AerLingus that needs this route, since they're in financial difficulty, not UA. UA is just providing the passengers. I'm sorry I just don't see this conspiracy mentality.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
That's because you've willfully buried your head in the sand.
ClearedToThe
Well-Known Member
In my short time in the 121 world here is what I've learned...
# 1 "No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood"
and
# 2 For those who understand no explanation is needed, and for those who don't understand, no explanation is possible.
# 3 I believe the book Hard Landing should be required reading for all those who wish to fly the line. If you haven't read it, maybe you should. (although #2 may trump this)
# 1 "No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood"
and
# 2 For those who understand no explanation is needed, and for those who don't understand, no explanation is possible.
# 3 I believe the book Hard Landing should be required reading for all those who wish to fly the line. If you haven't read it, maybe you should. (although #2 may trump this)
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Hard Landing eh?
synopsis?
synopsis?
ClearedToThe
Well-Known Member
Malaysian Airlines has a flight from Cape Town to Buenos Aires. The asian carriers do the same thing. Please be educated on issues before you bring them up in a discussion.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Oh Snap!
Say they DO NOT!?
Say they DO NOT!?
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Fly8slep:
You are not well versed in history. 5th freedom out of Japan is a long running historical right that was given many years ago...currently Northwest (now to be inherited by Delta) and United only have 5th freedom rights. This is a restricted amount of slots that must be fully utilized or they are forever forfeited.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
You are not well versed in history. 5th freedom out of Japan is a long running historical right that was given many years ago...currently Northwest (now to be inherited by Delta) and United only have 5th freedom rights. This is a restricted amount of slots that must be fully utilized or they are forever forfeited.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
