BFR Rates

BrewMaster

Well-Known Member
My boss has asked me what price we should charge for BFR's. I told him that we typically charge just our flat plane/instructor rates for BFR's. He said he would like to put together a package and/or charge a flat rate for a BFR, regardless of whether we eat a little bit of the price or benefit a little more. Anyways, I was wondering what the going rate is at a lot of different flight schools, or how you guys charge for a BFR. If I could get some examples or suggestions on how to do this it would be appreciated, thanks!
 
If you charge a flat rate, you could eat a lot when that guy shows up that hasn't flown in years and just wants a BFR. I had a guy show up one day that hadn't flown in almost 10 years, he didn't even know about the current airspace system!

I think you have the right idea just charging actual time. If the pilot is proficient and perhaps takes the time to study a little before showing up, he will save money versus the guy that barely flies and never looks at information available.
 
Just charge per hour for ground, per hour for flight. This is a scenario to fail. Someone will either get signed off when they aren't ready due to the boss trying to push them out, or a customer will complain when they don't get what they were promised.
 
Someone will either get signed off when they aren't ready due to the boss trying to push them out, or a customer will complain when they don't get what they were promised.

It depends on what the OP means by a "Flight Review". You can probably evaluate almost anybody in 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight. However, if they are not able to perform well enough, they will each require a varying amount of further training.

It certainly should be possible to have a fixed price on the evaluation portion, but the instructor will have to be disciplined enough not to begin the retraining during that phase.
 
It depends on what the OP means by a "Flight Review". You can probably evaluate almost anybody in 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight. However, if they are not able to perform well enough, they will each require a varying amount of further training.

It certainly should be possible to have a fixed price on the evaluation portion, but the instructor will have to be disciplined enough not to begin the retraining during that phase.

Right, but that is like the maintenance guys tell me it is a flat fee for the annual inspection. It means nothing to me as a customer when I know there are going to be charges to fix squawks before I even get the sign off on the airplane. What good is the "flat fee" inspection, when I know in advance that I will have to pay more than that flat fee to get what I want: The aircraft signed off as airworthy.

From a customer's perspective, I would see this as a bait and switch. From a flight instructor's perspective, I would hate my boss pushing me to get people done in a certain amount of time "or else."

How hard is it just to tell someone that the regs require at least 1 hour ground/1 hour flight, but that can vary significantly based on the pilot?
 
Yeah, I would vote to keep it simple and just charge for the time they use you and the airplane.
 
From a customer's perspective, I would see this as a bait and switch.

Oh, I agree it's a dangerous marketing concept. I just wanted to make sure the OP considered both aspects of the Flight Review. There needs to be a clear understanding between the school and the customers exactly what is being promised.

Guaranteeing a signoff within a preset amount of time would be disastrous.
 
Very good input, I really appreciate it. I should have been a little more specific, the guy who I am doing the BFR with tomorrow hasn't flown since......1991!!! He isn't too worried about the flight, he just wants to brush up on airspace.....we'll see....

I will still charge an hourly rate, but our flight school has, from what I have been seeing, fairly low rates. When I'm giving a BFR to someone who hasn't flown in 18 years, I feel like I should probably be making more than 45-65ish dollars.

Paying for x amount of time sounds good, but when the rates are low, my boss thinks we should be making more for a BFR(Liability, etc). Hey, I'm not gonna argue....

I guess I'm just not sure what to do, it would be nice to bring in a little extra money for BFR's, but how do we package that, and what is a good rate?
 
I guess I'm just not sure what to do, it would be nice to bring in a little extra money for BFR's, but how do we package that, and what is a good rate?

Oh, so the goal isn't to increase the number of FRs, but to increase profitability of the FRs that you do?

I've never heard of anyone doing that, so I suspect a good rate is $0 over what you normally charge for flight instruction. It isn't clear to me that the liability (or effort) is any greater than instructing, say, a private student.

Unless the guy is clueless, I think he'd feel cheated if you charged him a premium for no good reason.
 
I think you're heading for trouble if you go with a flat rate plan. Suppose a pilot wants a BFR and after the hour of ground and hour of flight, you determine he needs additional training. You either have to provide that training at no cost since its flat rate or sign him off. If you provide additional instruction, how will YOU be compensated? If you sign him off, you are putting yourself at great risk since you have attested to his competence as a pilot in command.
 
hasn't flown since......1991!!! He isn't too worried about the flight, he just wants to brush up on airspace.....we'll see....

Yeah, from what I have seen, a 17 year hiatus = worry about it.

I am with you that I think we need to charge more (at least my location does) for dual, but I think you might run in to a problem if the BFR price is different than regular instruction.

My location does charge different rates for primary instruction/ Advanced (commercial instrument)/ multi.

If you go to that system, you could stick BFRs into the Advanced section.
Just a thought.
 
I charge a flat rate. $150 4 hours. The eval starts during the initial contact, I have them do the online Flight Review prep course on the faasteam website.

Doing it that way I dont have people looking at their watch and saying the far's say 1 hour ground.
 
I seem to recall people needing 1 hr for every 1 year that they don't fly. Airspace would be a big thing since everything changed in the early 90's. The only option I've seem in the past that has come somewhat close to working is to set a price of $X for up to Y hours of dual. Set a defined limit with no guarantee. If they take less time, then you and/or your boss come out ahead.

The min I set for BFR's is a 3-hr block since it's a min 1 hr on the ground and a min of 1 hr in the air. In busy airspace, you might be hard-pressed to evaluate everything you want to. Document what is discussed and performed (have them sign/date it) because they are on your ticket for the next two. Lawyers (working for you) love stuff like this.
 
hey deadstick,
Do you have any idea where I could look up what the old airspace system looked like before they changed it?
I really dig history and it seems that airspace is something that the older pilots really comment on during BFRs.
 
hey deadstick,
Do you have any idea where I could look up what the old airspace system looked like before they changed it?
I really dig history and it seems that airspace is something that the older pilots really comment on during BFRs.

It looked the same. I think just the names changed.
The abbreviations are right, but I'm not 100% on the words...it's been awhile.
Class A = Positive Control Airspace (PCA)
Class B = Terminal Control Area (TCA)
Class C = Airport Radar Service Area (ARSA -- TRSA is the same)
Class D = Airport Traffic Area (ATA)

AAA Airport Advisory Area Is this still used for uncontrolled airports with an FSS...if you can find one.:D
 
Oh, so the goal isn't to increase the number of FRs, but to increase profitability of the FRs that you do?

I've never heard of anyone doing that, so I suspect a good rate is $0 over what you normally charge for flight instruction. It isn't clear to me that the liability (or effort) is any greater than instructing, say, a private student.

Unless the guy is clueless, I think he'd feel cheated if you charged him a premium for no good reason.

Easy, we're not trying to screw people. I was going to stick with the hourly rate until my boss approached me and said we should package that. I think Douglas said it best with putting a BFR into the "advanced" instruction category. Maybe just make IPC's and BFR's their own hourly rate? I am starting to see how it could potentially anger a customer if he isn't getting the full time. My boss said he is comfortable with eating some of the cost if it turns out that way too, but he just wanted me to do some research.

From what it sounds like, charging hourly is still the most popular method for a BFR so we may just stick with that. Thanks again!
 
150 just for you and their airplane?

Yeah, Going rate i n the area is 40 per hour, so 150 is actually below average. I tell them 4 hours up front because I wont do the guy who wants 1hr ground 1hr flight. That kind of person is not interested in currency, and keeping themselves sharp. IMO.
 
The last FR I did (quit calling it a BFR, the no longer exist), took just over 4 hours, 3.1 of ground and 1.3 of flying. The last IPC I did, took about 30 hours. When your 3 years out of currency, you lose a lot. I would tell your boss to stay away from flat pricing, or approach it as an "evaluation." Attach the phrase, "most people don't make it in this time frame, so you may need more." And make it include 3 hours for the instructor.

I also like the idea of charging $150 for a BFR with the pre-reqs. meet. But, just curious, have you ever not signed anyone off in 4 hours MooneyGuy?
 
No, I have signed all of them off (then again, i do not do them a lot). One thing I noticed is you dont get the guy who wants the 1 hr ground 1hr flight. the person who does not mind spending 4 hours with you is the type of pilot who understands safety and proficency. Im not interested in writing my name in the log book of the just barely get by type!
 
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