Colgan ALPA vote and Street Captains

[Propjob]

You know, you're right it is a displacement. I did not look at it that way. Thanks for keeping me honest. Sometimes frustration :banghead:gets in the way of looking at things from different angles. Sorry guys/gals. I will try to keep the venting to a min in the future.

 

[beechpilot]

prob. be rewarded for their performace with a pink slip anyways.

I know of one that should be rewarded this way. Never seen anything like it.

 

[SmitteyB]

If they had a "vacancy" for the open CA seats, then the qualled FOs would have the chance to bid for the seats. What you're seeing is a "displacement." If the FOs on the Saab had taken the chance to upgrade on the 1900, they'd be getting the Saab seats right now since Colgan wouldn't have had to hire street captains. Hate to say it, but this is actually the RIGHT way to do things. The only difference between what Colgan is doing and most other ALPA/Teamster/Independent Union carriers is that the union carriers would have benefits to go with the guys getting displaced from the 1900 to the Saab.

This is what is funny.

There isn't such thing as a bid at Colgan Air. You don't get choices at Colgan, you are given...________. Take me for instance, number 2 in base, I bid the afternoon line. The senior FO bid weekends. What do I get? Weekend mornings! Who got the afternoon line? Junior FO out of base! What can I do about it?

NOTHING.


As Tom Brink used to say "Upgrade is a privilege, NOT a right".

All I can say is vote ALPA so this isn't an issue next time we grow.

 

[dingo222]

i was just about to type it and you beat me too it. Upgrade is a privledge, not an entitlement. Just cause you've been there longer, or may meet the minimum requirements, doesn't mean you are entitled to upgrade. Ask a handful of the FO's that recently thought they would go to their PC less than prepared. They probably thought they were ready for upgrade also.

There are FO's ready to go to upgrade and I feel your frustrations. It's not the street captains fault that the company can't plan ahead. Most of those street captains were long time FO's somewhere else, or displaced or furloughed pilots. All we can do no is vote in a union so that it doesn't happen to some other poor pilot a few years down the line. my .02

 

[TVB]

Here's my .02 being a senior FO at CJC:

I do agree with what some of you are saying about upgrade being a privilege not a right. However, assuming there is no reason to believe an FO is not ready for upgrade, ie no failed sims or a showing of bad character, if there is a CA vacancy on the Saab and the eligible candidates are an FO and a street captain that the company wants to transition, it should be the FO. That's where I believe most of us FO's fit into the situation. I had a good PC and have had a clean record so far, so I think we should have been the one's awarded the upgrade.

I've been told to expect captain override pay but the problem I have with this is nobody knows when/if it will happen and who will recieve it. I know for a fact they aren't going to give it to all qualified FO's, that would cost the company way too much $. So how do you draw a cutoff line. If I know CJC management they probably won't do it at all, but if they did there would be very few of us. That's why we need a union so bad here. There is no communication about anything. There needs to be a contract in place to say who gets what and how. If we keep leaving it up to management they will continue to do the wrong thing.

I also agree 100% it's definitely not the street captains fault and I have no ill will towards any of them. CJC could go under tomorrow and all of us could be in that kind of situation being a street captain sometime in our careers. I know if I was out of a job I would like the chance that these captains have got. However, if I was a street captain I would understand that I would basically be last in everything possible for a long time. I wouldn't expect to transition to another airframe while qualified FO's are still in the right seat.

I was here last year and voted for ALPA, unfortunately a few less people voted than was needed and we all have to live with the company doing whatever it wants for a little while longer. I agree with what is said, lets not drop the ball this time around and things like this won't happen here anymore.

 

[kellwolf]

if there is a CA vacancy on the Saab and the eligible candidates are an FO and a street captain that the company wants to transition, it should be the FO.

True, but like I've said. We're not talking about a vacancy, we're talking about a displacement. What you're saying would open the door to every CA being booted out of their seat by any FO senior to them. Even at an ALPA carrier, senior FOs wouldn't get a shot at these seats over the street CAs. Might not be fair, but that's how it goes. I can understand the frustrations, though.

I've been told to expect captain override pay but the problem I have with this is nobody knows when/if it will happen and who will recieve it.

I don't see why the company would elect to or be obligated to pay CA override to FOs in this situation. We just had a 13 CA displacement from the -200 to the -900 here at Pinnacle. Should the 13 ATL FOs that got "passed over" for upgrade get CA pay?

If I know CJC management they probably won't do it at all, but if they did there would be very few of us. That's why we need a union so bad here.

Not what you wanted to hear, but with any union on the property, odds are Colgan wouldn't be required to pay override pay in this situation. There would just be a legal framework for the displacement and probably more $$$ and benefits for the people getting displaced.

Now, if the airframe wasn't being eliminated, it would be a totally different story.

 

[greaper007]

All I can say is, the more experience you get in the plane before you upgrade at Colgan, the better. In my first week I've had 1 mx writeup that required calling on AirInc, one gate return and one air return. Oh yeah, these were all in the same day. Being Captain is an even tougher job than I thought it would be.

I heard through the grapevine that Colgan is at least going to pay protect these FO's. So things could be worse.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

With the way things are slowing right now, pay protection is excellent. Getting paid the money for a job description thats not yours, should always bring a smile

 

[CAPIP1998]

All I can say is, the more experience you get in the plane before you upgrade at Colgan, the better. In my first week I've had 1 mx writeup that required calling on AirInc, one gate return and one air return. Oh yeah, these were all in the same day. Being Captain is an even tougher job than I thought it would be.

I heard through the grapevine that Colgan is at least going to pay protect these FO's. So things could be worse.

Greaper, having worked there for several years, I just wanted to point out that you used ARINC (aka SFO Radio), not AirInc (the employment service). It's a common mistake.

 

[SmitteyB]

Greaper, having worked there for several years, I just wanted to point out that you used ARINC (aka SFO Radio), not AirInc (the employment service). It's a common mistake.

Was this a necessary post?

Anyone looking at the Airline Pilots forum knew what he was talking about. Come on, dont be "that" guy who nitpicks.

 

[Baronman]

Haha..you know I never really noticed the difference in the spelling. I've never thought about going to an AirInc seminar and I've only had to call company on ARINC once. I guess they're pronounced the same way hence the small error in spelling. Sorry for continuing the thread hijack.

 

[TVB]

True, but like I've said. We're not talking about a vacancy, we're talking about a displacement. What you're saying would open the door to every CA being booted out of their seat by any FO senior to them. Even at an ALPA carrier, senior FOs wouldn't get a shot at these seats over the street CAs. Might not be fair, but that's how it goes. I can understand the frustrations, though.

I'm not sure if it is totally a displacement thing though. H.M. came to IAH yesterday and I asked him specifically about this issue. Basically from what I gather from his answers, which were all very vague, is that they are doing it this way to save $. From what I understood they were debating between two options on how to handle all of this and they figured it would cost the company too much money. Something he mentioned real fast about having two separate training classes for just the 1900 guys. There was apparently a memo that came out detailing the process for the 1900 captains that are transferring over but it didn't make it down to Houston apparently.



I don't see why the company would elect to or be obligated to pay CA override to FOs in this situation. We just had a 13 CA displacement from the -200 to the -900 here at Pinnacle. Should the 13 ATL FOs that got "passed over" for upgrade get CA pay?

That's why it doesn't seem to me like it is a total displacement. If they are offering to pay protect us it makes me think that they are screwing us and they know it. Or maybe they just found out about generosity.



Not what you wanted to hear, but with any union on the property, odds are Colgan wouldn't be required to pay override pay in this situation. There would just be a legal framework for the displacement and probably more $$$ and benefits for the people getting displaced.

Now, if the airframe wasn't being eliminated, it would be a totally different story.

Who knows

 

[kellwolf]

I'm not sure if it is totally a displacement thing though. H.M. came to IAH yesterday and I asked him specifically about this issue. Basically from what I gather from his answers, which were all very vague, is that they are doing it this way to save $. From what I understood they were debating between two options on how to handle all of this and they figured it would cost the company too much money. Something he mentioned real fast about having two separate training classes for just the 1900 guys. There was apparently a memo that came out detailing the process for the 1900 captains that are transferring over but it didn't make it down to Houston apparently.

I was under the impression these guys were getting booted off the airframe b/c it was getting phased out. Being on the bottom of the CA seniority list, they would be the first to get shipped off to another airframe while the senior guys kept doing what they've been doing. Now, if there's NOT a reduction in the 1900 flying and they're just moving these guys around, you might have a case.

 

[beechpilot]

Now, if there's NOT a reduction in the 1900 flying and they're just moving these guys around, you might have a case.

Today is the last day of AUG serving as a pilot base so those pilots are going to wind up somewhere. It's possible that senior 1900 pilots will get to transition and the newer pilots on the 1900 will transfer to BHB or ALB.

 

[kellwolf]

Today is the last day of AUG serving as a pilot base so those pilots are going to wind up somewhere. It's possible that senior 1900 pilots will get to transition and the newer pilots on the 1900 will transfer to BHB or ALB.

Well, then you can't call this anything but a displacement. The only thing that a union would do differently would be how the CAs are moved over to the Saab, from the bottom up or offer incentives to the senior guys to move over first.

 

[sherpa]

c'mon guys. didn't you get the last memo? that should have cleared it all up for you. If they upgraded in seniority order the company would have gone out of business. how do you spell it? oh yes. A-L-P-A.

thank you and good night.

 

[L-16B]

c'mon guys. didn't you get the last memo? that should have cleared it all up for you. If they upgraded in seniority order the company would have gone out of business. how do you spell it? oh yes. A-L-P-A.

thank you and good night.

haha i finally read that memo. good stuff. it specifically addressed displaced captains and the beech closing.

 

[beechpilot]

haha i finally read that memo. good stuff. it specifically addressed displaced captains and the beech closing.

Yeah Colgan is down to flying one Beech around which means a couple must be getting ready to go to PWA.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Yeah Colgan is down to flying one Beech around which means a couple must be getting ready to go to PWA.

I've got a couple grand in the bank, think they'd sell me Lima Victor Gansta'?

 

[OldTownPilot]

And they think they can fly that beech around 7 days a week without any issues? HA!

When is the start date for the Saab Andy? I've heard things all over the map.