Southwest tries to redecorate LGA tower

[derg]

So they’re blatantly violating the FH. They can enjoy that FOQA call.

Sounds like #AlaskaProblems

The -200 had no speed tape and no problem with the flap setting.

But let’s talk about flap settings, why the hell does a modern jet have like 38 individual flap detents?! We’ve got Up(0)/1/2/3/Full(4) on the bus and it works pretty well. Well, technically 5 if you want to talk 1 and 1+F

 

[Inverted]

View attachment 77170
This carpet knows when you use flaps 2.

I am not kidding when I said eww wtf is that?! Oh yea….

 

[Inverted]

Sounds like #AlaskaProblems

The -200 had no speed tape and no problem with the flap setting.

But let’s talk about flap settings, why the hell does a modern jet have like 38 individual flap detents?! We’ve got Up(0)/1/2/3/Full(4) on the bus and it works pretty well. Well, technically 5 if you want to talk 1 and 1+F

Airbus gets it.

 

[MikeD]

I used to say, Idle and 250 kts would get you 1700 fpm in the descent. Add speed brakes and you get 1700 fpm and vibration.

That’s exactly right! About 1700-1800 v/s will still maintain your speed when clean. The speed brakes do next to nothing. Which makes me amused when pilots on the classic and Jurassic pull the speedbrake handle in an effort to slow down, and nothing happens. “Gotta do something else if you want to slow…”

 

[MikeD]

Sounds like #AlaskaProblems

The -200 had no speed tape and no problem with the flap setting.

But let’s talk about flap settings, why the hell does a modern jet have like 38 individual flap detents?! We’ve got Up(0)/1/2/3/Full(4) on the bus and it works pretty well. Well, technically 5 if you want to talk 1 and 1+F

My A-10 had flaps up/approach/down. And my F-117 had no flaps at all.

 

[Inverted]

My A-10 had flaps up/approach/down. And my F-117 had no flaps at all.

My Extra 300 has no flaps. And I use the prop as a speed brake. Boeing would explode if they knew that.

 

[JordanD]

Sounds like #AlaskaProblems

The -200 had no speed tape and no problem with the flap setting.

But let’s talk about flap settings, why the hell does a modern jet have like 38 individual flap detents?! We’ve got Up(0)/1/2/3/Full(4) on the bus and it works pretty well. Well, technically 5 if you want to talk 1 and 1+F

IIRC the 175 is the opposite and has 6 detents but only 5 actual settings. I want to say flaps 4 and 5 are the same, but 4 was there so the plane would recognize it as a takeoff config.

 

[MikeD]

My Extra 300 has no flaps. And I use the prop as a speed brake. Boeing would explode if they knew that.

It’s funny when people say that Boeing’s problems started when they acquired McD; heck they started long before that. Boeing knew the problem with the 737s rudder shortly after UA585 happened, and yet still told the NTSB the cause was rotor winds off the mountains, after their own private in house investigation found the issue with the rudder servo actuator and they decided to keep it quiet.

 

[Inverted]

IIRC the 175 is the opposite and has 6 detents but only 5 actual settings. I want to say flaps 4 and 5 are the same, but 4 was there so the plane would recognize it as a takeoff config.

1 and 1+F are like that on the Bus. Same detent. 1+F is the takeoff setting. But the Bus goes to 1+F in the air from a lower flap setting as a function of a go-around so that’s how some people used to hack it to get flaps and slats with flaps 1 on approach.

 

[Richman]

My Bonanza had 3 flap settings. Up, approach and down.

I didn’t obsess over it.

It also had aftermarket speed brakes. Using them felt like you got shot down, so I didn’t use them much.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sounds like #AlaskaProblems

The -200 had no speed tape and no problem with the flap setting.

But let’s talk about flap settings, why the hell does a modern jet have like 38 individual flap detents?! We’ve got Up(0)/1/2/3/Full(4) on the bus and it works pretty well. Well, technically 5 if you want to talk 1 and 1+F

Agreed. Chalking it up to the original 1967 design and carryover.

But that said, the 737 can easily be a 4 detent approach like an A320:

Flaps 1 210kts
Flaps 5 180kts
Gear down flaps 15 and 160kts
Flaps 30, final approach speed.

If you do it right, the lever’s back at “1” before the flaps even move.

The quick move to 2 and back to 1, I’m definitely not a fan of screwing an extension cycle and reversing it immediately. Was on the Bus for 8.5 years, not once did I have to do that.

 

[JordanD]

1 and 1+F are like that on the Bus. Same detent. 1+F is the takeoff setting. But the Bus goes to 1+F in the air from a lower flap setting as a function of a go-around so that’s how some people used to hack it to get flaps and slats with flaps 1 on approach.

In a couple thousand hours I've never really figured out why anyone would think that's necessary. I found it by accident when approach wanted to speed us back up to 210 after they'd given us 190.

 

[inigo88]

I hope my Alaska pilots this morning on the way to MCI figure out what flaps they can or can’t use before TOD.

I am late to the jab, but could you imagine if the 737 had “Dial-A-Flap”? It would be pandemonium!

 

[JustinS]

View attachment 77169
You guys about done?

What I find silly is they attached the gear horn to Flaps 15…. So anything more than 10 you need gear… Meanwhile the MD-11 we could be at flaps 28 with the gear up being vectored around.

 

[ShortField]

We didn't pay for flaps 2 speed tape scheduling. The notch still exists and the airplane can go to flaps 2 without issue. The airplane is placarded for it, but our FH prohibits it.

Flaps 2 bug will show up on the speed tape. So I’m told.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

What I find silly is they attached the gear horn to Flaps 15…. So anything more than 10 you need gear… Meanwhile the MD-11 we could be at flaps 28 with the gear up being vectored around.

IIRC on the A320 you could go full flaps and not get a gear horn, until your standard below 800(?) ft for too low gear.

On the 737 you could go flaps 15 with gear up, but the power lever has to be advanced in order for the horn not to activate. Can’t be at idle.

 

[derg]

View attachment 77169
You guys about done?

But flaps 2, bruh!

 

[roundout]

modern jet

This is a sub-discussion about the 737, yes?

 

[Inverted]

Flaps 2 bug will show up on the speed tape. So I’m told.

On OE I was told there was no published speed for it. I said that it is placarded on the panel, and he said that he meant on the speed tape. I dunno, I have never used them for obvious reasons but to my knowledge, AS is the only operator that prohibits it.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

On OE I was told there was no published speed for it. I said that it is placarded on the panel, and he said that he meant on the speed tape. I dunno, I have never used them for obvious reasons but to my knowledge, AS is the only operator that prohibits it.

I’ve seen one FO go from flaps 1 to 5, momentarily (accidentally) stopping in the 2 detent before going to 5, and yes you do see a -2 line on the speed tape.


I don’t know why they do what they do. Just that we are supposed to do what they tell us to do, and not the things they say not to do.