obstacle departure procedures

[STS-41B]

This is from the technical forum.. but figured maybe some real-life ATC folks could chime in..

Typically a flight to DFW from there is filed DRO, V123 (not the right number but doesn't matter), some fix, PNH, etc...
let's say it's clear and a million day time.. DRO has no tower; you get your clearance and release from Denver center when you're number 1 at runway 3 or 21 .. let's say we're using 21. The ODP says you have to fly on a heading to a fix, which is completely the wrong direction.
Half the people I fly with say you have to do this. The other half make left traffic off of 21 and as we contact Denver center we're typically cleared to the fix down the road...

 

[T/O w/FSII]

So, what’s the question?


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[STS-41B]

So, what’s the question?


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??
the question is obviously, does ATC except you to fly the ODP or not ??

 

[NovemberEcho]

??
the question is obviously, does ATC except you to fly the ODP or not ??

unless specifically assigned ODP’s are optional. It is recommended you advise ATC when you get your clearance or release whether you will be flying the ODP or not.

 

[Roger Roger]

??
the question is obviously, does ATC except you to fly the ODP or not ??

What ATC expects you to do seldom has any bearing on legality.

 

[NovemberEcho]

What ATC expects you to do seldom has any bearing on legality.

250 TIL I SAY OTHERWISE!

 

[T/O w/FSII]

??
the question is obviously, does ATC except you to fly the ODP or not ??

All that text and not one question mark.

Depends. Are you IFR or VFR?

 

[deadstick]

250 TIL I SAY OTHERWISE!

“Best forward speed...” I can burn the dinosaurs, but I don’t wanna burn my ticket.

 

[NovemberEcho]

“Best forward speed...” I can burn the dinosaurs, but I don’t wanna burn my ticket.

VECTOR FOR RESEQUENCE! BACK OF THE LINE PEASANT!

 

[deadstick]

VECTOR FOR RESEQUENCE! BACK OF THE LINE PEASANT!

My King Air runs over jets, can do 250 to a 2 mile final, AND make the first taxiway. ATC loves the King Air.

 

[z987k]

unless specifically assigned ODP’s are optional. It is recommended you advise ATC when you get your clearance or release whether you will be flying the ODP or not.

So... ODPs/SIDs are mandatory for everyone but 91, so you should always expect the ODP.

 

[NovemberEcho]

So... ODPs/SIDs are mandatory for everyone but 91, so you should always expect the ODP.

A SID is not the same as an ODP, although they can serve the same purpose. But I can’t really go into much more depth as I’ve never worked airspace with any ODP’s that I’m aware of.

but as to whether they’re mandatory when not part 91 would depend on the company regs. The only reason ATC wants to know if you’re going to fly it or not is for traffic separation. Terrain/obstacle obstruction is on you.

 

[z987k]

A SID is not the same as an ODP, although they can serve the same purpose. But I can’t really go into much more depth as I’ve never worked airspace with any ODP’s that I’m aware of.

but as to whether they’re mandatory when not part 91 would depend on the company regs. The only reason ATC wants to know if you’re going to fly it or not is for traffic separation. Terrain/obstacle obstruction is on you.

No it's per the FARs

91.175f -
(3) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(4) of this section, no pilot may takeoff under IFR from a civil airport having published obstacle departure procedures (ODPs) under part 97 of this chapter for the takeoff runway to be used, unless the pilot uses such ODPs or an alternative procedure or route assigned by air traffic control.

(4) Notwithstanding the requirements of paragraph (f)(3) of this section, no pilot may takeoff from an airport under IFR unless:

(i) For part 121 and part 135 operators, the pilot uses a takeoff obstacle clearance or avoidance procedure that ensures compliance with the applicable airplane performance operating limitations requirements under part 121, subpart I or part 135, subpart I for takeoff at that air

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

unless specifically assigned ODP’s are optional. It is recommended you advise ATC when you get your clearance or release whether you will be flying the ODP or not.

That answer gets an "A"

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

As the regulation says, if there is an ODP for the takeoff runway, flying the ODP is mandatory for parts 121, 125, 129, or 135 unless "an alternative procedure or route assigned by air traffic control." That includes a SID and vectors into a diverse departure area.

None if that means ATC knows what we are capable of (especially the (f)(4) stuff), nor the prerogative of other operators to choose an ODP if no other terrain/obstacle procedure is assigned, nor the need for those of us making the choice to not "fly heading 230 upon entering controlled airspace " to advice ATC of our intentions

 

[Stinger]

A SID is not the same as an ODP, although they can serve the same purpose. But I can’t really go into much more depth as I’ve never worked airspace with any ODP’s that I’m aware of.

but as to whether they’re mandatory when not part 91 would depend on the company regs. The only reason ATC wants to know if you’re going to fly it or not is for traffic separation. Terrain/obstacle obstruction is on you.

MMU, CDW, EWR, and TEB all have ODPs. Although EWR and TEB are mostly meaningless since the towers are 24 hours.

 

[NovemberEcho]

MMU, CDW, EWR, and TEB all have ODPs. Although EWR and TEB are mostly meaningless since the towers are 24 hours.

Ah didnt know that since MMU we only assign the SID and CDW we have a specific set of instruction we assign. Strange that the ODP’s turn you in the opposite direction than how we run it (Or the SID in MMU’s case).

ODP’s something Ive never been trained on. Anything I know about them has been through forum discussions and looking them up for said purposes.

 

[ppragman]

That answer gets an "A"

C-.

ODPs are not optional to air carriers.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

C-.

ODPs are not optional to air carriers.

I thought about that and almost modified my comment by saying a better term would be "pilot's prerogative." But either way, I was reading the comment as about optional in terms of the relationship to ATC - pilot's option to use even if not assigned - not whether the pilot is required to use it.

So A-

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Ah didnt know that since MMU we only assign the SID and CDW we have a specific set of instruction we assign. Strange that the ODP’s turn you in the opposite direction than how we run it (Or the SID in MMU’s case).

ODP’s something Ive never been trained on. Anything I know about them has been through forum discussions and looking them up for said purposes.

What's an interesting variation are the ODPs which get used as SIDs. At KHKY in North Carolina, for example, there is the HICKORY departure. It is identified as an ODP but looks and reads exactly like a vector SID, and is regularly assigned by the Tower. There are mountains in that area so I understand why it might be identified as an ODP even though it contains no routings, but it strikes me as more about traffic management due to proximity to Charlotte.