Morbid curiosity. Upgrade times?

[Kingairer]

THIS! Let's talk more about this.

The RJs were born around 1996 at Comair as 50 seat airplanes designed for hub feed, hub bypass, and to raid competitor hubs.

At the time there were a few - not many - but a few more than 50 seat commuters. United Feeder Service flew the Jetstream 61 - the ATP (advanced turboprop). Some other airlines flew the Saab 2000, the ATR72, and later the Dash 8 Q400.

The lions share of commuters though were almost exclusively hub feed to support the mainline.

Mainline, incidentally started in the 65-100 seat range with the Bac1-11, Fokker 28, Fokker 100, DC9-10, DC9-30, 737-200, BAe146.

Those were good mainline jobs with mainline pay scales, mainline work rules, and mainline retirement.

Airline management decides that if they play a rhetorical game and call an airplane "regional" they can get ALPA to scope it away where it can be flown by B-scale employees that bid against one another to be the lowest paid employees. (Until very recently)

EVERY SINGLE RJ that is purchased equals a dozen or so fewer MAINLINE jobs. We shouldn't celebrate RJ orders, we should condemn them.

We are our own worst enemies, and have been so for almost 30 years.

This fight has changed a bit. No longer are the regional pilots getting paid nothing to fly, in some cases they’re making more money than the mainline pilot.

 

[alaskadrifter]

This fight has changed a bit. No longer are the regional pilots getting paid nothing to fly, in some cases they’re making more money than the mainline pilot.

Is anyone besides LCA getting paid more than a similar longevity/seat mainline pilot?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

This fight has changed a bit. No longer are the regional pilots getting paid nothing to fly, in some cases they’re making more money than the mainline pilot.

Are those codified in the CBA? Or is it still out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

[Kingairer]

Are those codified in the CBA? Or is it still out of the goodness of their hearts?

Hard to see how they unravel those without massive disruptions. It’ll take a big shift in the economy for that to happen. You have check airmen in 145s and CRJs making 500+k . You have new hires getting 200k bonuses to start plus livable wages after. It’s just a different conversation then regionals were making $21/hr.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Hard to see how they unravel those without massive disruptions. It’ll take a big shift in the economy for that to happen. You have check airmen in 145s and CRJs making 500+k . You have new hires getting 200k bonuses to start plus livable wages after. It’s just a different conversation then regionals were making $21/hr.

$21?! I never made over $13!

 

[MikeD]

Once again, I am not trying to egg on “Dacuj”, or get into a discussion with “him”. This is for anybody who might not happen to be in the know.

Envoy and AA are not the same. Their pay scales aren’t shared. They are union contracts are different. They do not share the same seniority system. They do not fly the same aircraft. They do not enjoy the same 401(k) benefits.

And while a sub two-year upgrade is phenomenal, it is factually incorrect to say that it is the best thing around right now.

Is there any commonality or carryover between the two, only owing that they are both AAG? Would years at Envoy credit anything towards retirement at AA, for example?

 

[ASpilot2be]

$21?! I never made over $13!

Psh. $13 in 1900 is $490 today.

 

[mikecweb]

My SA ended a while ago. However, I've been approached and asked about taking part in another SA project that will start soon so I fully expect to be back over at the palace inside a couple of months.

What is SA?

 

[Beep]

Psh. $13 in 1900 is $490 today.

Huzzah!!

 

[MikeD]

Mainline, incidentally started in the 65-100 seat range with the Bac1-11, Fokker 28, Fokker 100, DC9-10, DC9-30, 737-200, BAe146.

Those were good mainline jobs with mainline pay scales, mainline work rules, and mainline retirement.

Airline management decides that if they play a rhetorical game and call an airplane "regional" they can get ALPA to scope it away where it can be flown by B-scale employees that bid against one another to be the lowest paid employees. (Until very recently)

America West proved you could even have turboprops at mainline, flown by mainline pilots; with their DHC-8-100s.

 

[Ian_J]

Is there any commonality or carryover between the two, only owing that they are both AAG? Would years at Envoy credit anything towards retirement at AA, for example?

No. Nothing.

Envoy offers a 1:1 longevity credit for 121 experience… AA does not offer the same.

(And to be fair, the deals my airline has with its regionals are terrible too, if not worse. That said, it’s time for the regionals to go away).

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Is anyone besides LCA getting paid more than a similar longevity/seat mainline pilot?

Up until the recent contract, first year Envoy FOs made more than first year AA FOs

 

[DE727UPS]

What is SA?

Not sure.

 

[DeltaAlphaNovember]

What is SA?

Special Assignment.

 

[///AMG]

That said, it’s time for the regionals to go away).

For the most part, I agree. But until there is a financially beneficial reason for mainline to absorb WO's into one seniority list/mx team/etc, I imagine they will resist the chaos. The first major that does it successfully though, will be the end of the regional. If that were to happen.

 

[bimmerphile]

Ha ha. Real funny trying to stir up a debate about something that's already been established. It IS the same. Just a different department. If you're working in the Auto shop at Sears and transfer to men's clothing, it's a simple departmental move. Same thing applies here.

cool, since it’s all one big family i could throw bags for Piedmont and put in a transfer to AA once i got my atp and 1yr 9mo of service, straight to the left seat!

 

[alaskadrifter]

Up until the recent contract, first year Envoy FOs made more than first year AA FOs

Fair, but AA was still on the previous contract cycle. It looks like they “fixed the glitch” now.

Hard to see how they unravel those without massive disruptions. It’ll take a big shift in the economy for that to happen. You have check airmen in 145s and CRJs making 500+k . You have new hires getting 200k bonuses to start plus livable wages after. It’s just a different conversation then regionals were making $21/hr.

Is this sustainable? I seem to remember people on the interwebz saying once the regionals got too expensive the flying would be folded into mainline but that doesn’t appear to be the case (yet).

 

[scooter2525]

What is SA?

Sales Associate

 

[podrick]

No. Nothing.

Envoy offers a 1:1 longevity credit for 121 experience… AA does not offer the same.

(And to be fair, the deals my airline has with its regionals are terrible too, if not worse. That said, it’s time for the regionals to go away).

Unless it changed since I escaped, your 401k direct contributions would start day one, whereas new hires had to wait until year 2. Maybe there was also longevity credit for vacation? Idk I bailed for a reason.

 

[FlyinSol0]

Unless it changed since I escaped, your 401k direct contributions would start day one, whereas new hires had to wait until year 2. Maybe there was also longevity credit for vacation? Idk I bailed for a reason.

Yeah nothing carries over anymore, that stuff ended a few flow groups ago. All new hires get the 17 percent right off now though, with the new contract.