SWA vs UAL... FIGHT

[Inverted]

Well, this is a fun one. Newish hire 777 UAL FO in the JS on a SWA flight coming into San Diego. The scuttlebutt is that the SWA crew got loaded up and let the airplane slow to 180kts clean. They landed, and she notified them that she would be contacting the FAA regarding the flight. This post basically started a chain of events that is rumored to have led to SWA denying the JS to some UAL folks. SWAPA has acknowledged the event and says it is working on it.

This kinda stuff always brings up an interesting duality. What do you really say from the JS? On the one hand, you're lucky to be there. On the other, you are a crewmember and have an obligation to speak up regarding safety. I remember the thread from years ago about calling a go around from the JS and that was a big debate.

 

[CFI A&P]

Aerocrew news had this post up, I guess related to this story, so is the story true but this post bogus?

 

[Inverted]

I think the Aero Crew News post was falsified. But this situation is pretty real, up to and including doxing of the UAL FO on social media and message boards.

 

[Wardogg]

As a general rule do captains ask who the pilot flies for when receiving a jumpseat request from a gate agent?

 

[Old Pete]

As a general rule do captains ask who the pilot flies for when receiving a jumpseat request from a gate agent?

Always

 

[ERfly]

The good news is that the airline blogs that people think are actually news are running with the Jumpseat war rumor. Someone on our company Facebook group posted a link from the Edward R. Murrow of the genre, Gary Leff, writing a whole mess of misinformation.

 

[Old Pete]

Well, this is a fun one. Newish hire 777 UAL FO in the JS on a SWA flight coming into San Diego. The scuttlebutt is that the SWA crew got loaded up and let the airplane slow to 180kts clean. They landed, and she notified them that she would be contacting the FAA regarding the flight. This post basically started a chain of events that is rumored to have led to SWA denying the JS to some UAL folks. SWAPA has acknowledged the event and says it is working on it.

View attachment 77802

This kinda stuff always brings up an interesting duality. What do you really say from the JS? On the one hand, you're lucky to be there. On the other, you are a crewmember and have an obligation to speak up regarding safety. I remember the thread from years ago about calling a go around from the JS and that was a big debate.

An “interesting duality” ? She’s a nutcase if what I’ve read is true. I’ve read she called the FAA hotline. This is akin to pulling the Fire alarm when there is no fire. Abusing the 911 system. This appears to be nothing more than CA/FO debrief item(once again based early sm posts)

 

[poser765]

This kinda stuff always brings up an interesting duality. What do you really say from the JS? On the one hand, you're lucky to be there. On the other, you are a crewmember and have an obligation to speak up regarding safety. I remember the thread from years ago about calling a go around from the JS and that was a big debate.

I feel like there is a pretty easy take...Hmm, I was going to type more, but I just kept coming up with exceptions and and edge cases. I think for me, the bottom line is this, I'll say something if I'm about to suffer bodily harm. Hell, I probably even say something, IF I NOTICE, that will help keep the crew from being violated. And the last I would do incredibly tactfully. Its not my show and I don't how they play the game.

Would I call a go around from the jumpseat? Absolutely if not going around was going to kill me. Unstable at 1000? Not my show.

I will say this also... Can we not with the whole jumpseat war for a one off thing? There is apparently one person that caused one problem. We have systems in place for that, so can we let them work?

 

[arkflyr]

There is no jumpseat war, this drama is over. As I posted in the other thread this is from the SWAPA president.

So everyone can calm down now.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

She’s already been doxxed in various group chats.

 

[CFI A&P]

As a general rule do captains ask who the pilot flies for when receiving a jumpseat request from a gate agent?

Some agreements don't permit flight deck access, they're a seat in the back only, and there is paperwork the gate agent processes that verifies that they are authorized to occupy the jumpseat. Part of that paperwork is what captain the gets with "Hello Captain, I'm Carl Fox with Blue Star Airlines, can I catch a ride with you to Springfield?"

 

[jtrain609]

Can a 737 driver give us some context here? Is a 737 about to fall out of the sky at 180 knots clean at max landing weight? Fifi's low speed characteristics are pretty good, so while this would be bad in an A320, this wouldn't rise to the level of calling anyone other than maybe saying, "check speed" from the jump seat.

 

[Inverted]

An “interesting duality” ? She’s a nutcase if what I’ve read is true. I’ve read she called the FAA hotline. This is akin to pulling the Fire alarm when there is no fire. Abusing the 911 system. This appears to be nothing more than CA/FO debrief item(once again based early sm posts)

Oh I agree 100%. Don't rat to the FAA, handle it in-house like adults or just let it go, it was handled.

The duality part was more from the point of when do you speak up, when do you say something in the JS...

 

[Ian_J]

Can a 737 driver give us some context here? Is a 737 about to fall out of the sky at 180 knots clean at max landing weight? Fifi's low speed characteristics are pretty good, so while this would be bad in an A320, this wouldn't rise to the level of calling anyone other than maybe saying, "check speed" from the jump seat.

It’s been a while but clean is usually 210-ish?

 

[Inverted]

Can a 737 driver give us some context here? Is a 737 about to fall out of the sky at 180 knots clean at max landing weight? Fifi's low speed characteristics are pretty good, so while this would be bad in an A320, this wouldn't rise to the level of calling anyone other than maybe saying, "check speed" from the jump seat.

Gonna depend on the model and weight but 180kts clean is slow for sure.

 

[Roger Roger]

It’s been a while but clean is usually 210-ish?

Unless you’re in a light -700 yeah.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Do any CAs give a brief to jumpseaters similar to what I would give to a pilot riding shotgun with me in a piston single? Like "hey, if you see something odd, say something." Is that a thing?

 

[Inverted]

Do any CAs give a brief to jumpseaters similar to what I would give to a pilot riding shotgun with me in a piston single? Like "hey, if you see something odd, say something." Is that a thing?

I try to, because I want them to speak up if they see something. I also think there is an obligation to say something.

 

[Roger Roger]

Do any CAs give a brief to jumpseaters similar to what I would give to a pilot riding shotgun with me in a piston single? Like "hey, if you see something odd, say something." Is that a thing?

So in my extensive experience of ~6 months of riding jumpseats, practically every captain will say something to that effect. Even if I am riding company metal and the captain conducts the required JS briefing by referring me to the briefing card, I can’t remember an instance when they did not say pretty much exactly that. I’ve spoken up once from the JS and though the result was good for everyone I still felt awkward as hell about it.

 

[MikeD]

Gonna depend on the model and weight but 180kts clean is slow for sure.

Unless you’re in a light -700 yeah.

Flaps 2 would take care of that.