# You're on the approach when there's a deer!

#### derg

##### Apparently a "terse" writer
Staff member
Ok, you're conducting a non-precision approach, just after you cross the missed approach point, there's "OMG! A deer on the runway!"

The field is IFR.

What do you do and why?

Not enough info.

Can I get back up to circling MDA safely (maintaining visual contact with the airport/staying out of the clouds)?

How many motors are working? How many did I start with? How much go-juice is left? Am I on fire? Any emergency situation?

-mini

I dunno, but say it's 600' ceilings with 1 mile visibility.

Not enough info.

:yeahthat:

You got to give more details. That is where the devil hides they say.

:dunno::dunno:

How much fuel is remaining? Since it is IFR... you probably have an alternate (thinking fuel here), or is this your alternate? Anything wrong with the airplane? What kind of IFR? Is is low ceilings and visibility due to a cloud layer or is it precipitation/convective activity that is causing it?

Details... must know details!

You sufficient fuel reserves and plenty of smash for another approach and possible diversion.

Sorry for the cat and mouse game, but what I'm really looking for is what your next step is with the aircraft.

Hint: Missed approach? Rejected landing?

Remember, you're past the missed approach point. What factors are you looking at to determine HOW you fly away from the runway?

I dunno, but say it's 600' ceilings with 1 mile visibility.
Well...that could be above circling minimums or below straight in minimums at the right airport.

Sorry for the cat and mouse game, but what I'm really looking for is what your next step is with the aircraft.

Hint: Missed approach? Rejected landing?
Need more information. If I can't circle for whatever reason, then I'd have to execute the missed approach procedure.

Remember, you're past the missed approach point. What factors are you looking at to determine HOW you fly away from the runway?
Max power, flaps to approach, positive rate gear up, climb at Vref for 5 minutes (mct limitation). Follow the procedure. Once at a safe altitude, accelerate to Vapp + and suck up the flaps and continue to climb/accelerate.

Not much you can do at that point. If we've got an emergency, that's a different scenario that the deer may not walk away from.

Factors:
Aircraft condition, fuel status, towered airport or not, emergency or not, terrain, weather...you know, "stuff". Plus all of the other factors that we all need to consider when conducting any flight.

-mini

Can you use circling minimums from a rejected landing? Are you still on the instrument approach?

Can you use circling minimums from a rejected landing? Are you still on the instrument approach?
If I absolutely needed to and I could get a clearance for it (assuming an operating tower I'd have to state my intentions with them), why not?

If it's a non-towered field, the airspace is mine once I'm cleared for the approach. No one else is going in or out IFR and I'm going to do what I need to in order to complete the flight safely.

If that means hopping up to circling MDA, making a trip around the patch configured for a circle and then landing from the circle, then that's fine.

-mini

I'm thinking that if you are past the MAP and probably lower than MDA you could be taking your chances if you flew the Missed Approach Procedure. You're basically taking off again into the clouds. What if the runway has an Obstacle DP that says to fly runway heading up to 1200' before turning and the Missed Approach for that same runway says to make a climbing left turn to 3000'. The TERPS people are figuring that you can make it to 3000 and not hit anything because you are starting at the Missed Approach Point and you're already at, say, 1000' (if that was the MDA). The TERPS guys aren't going to guarantee anything if you're starting at 500' and halfway down the runway, but you know you could easily climb to 1200' and then turn if you follow the DP. Could be a good reason to brief the DP along with the Missed I guess, but who does that?

What size plane am I in?
I land, hit the deer and laugh about it later.
Its a great story.

This might be a really dumb statement...but...how long is the runway?

Like, can you land past it?

If I'm in a 172 coming in to 17R/35L at AUS, this is potentially a non-issue because the frakkin' runway is more than two miles long....

Can you use circling minimums from a rejected landing? Are you still on the instrument approach?

Sounds to me like you're VFR at this point.... you descended below the minimum altitude on the approach, and you have the runway in sight (or else you wouldn't have seen the deer). But I guess you said you "just crossed the MAP, so in your scenario you may not have descended below the minimums.

I guess it would depend on the airport and my gut instincts. If I'm in Aspen, we may be having deer meat in the fridge. If I'm in Omaha, I'd probably attempt a go around (depending on the deer).

Something tells me TERPS takes into account a balked landing from below DA/MDA for their missed approach procedures.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Can you use circling minimums from a rejected landing? Are you still on the instrument approach?

Yes, you can. It's a matter of determining which way to turn.

If I can determine it's safe to circle I would buzz the deer and climb to circling mins and circle back around. At AirNet we would time legs during a rejected "circle".

I'm thinking that if you are past the MAP and probably lower than MDA you could be taking your chances if you flew the Missed Approach Procedure. You're basically taking off again into the clouds. What if the runway has an Obstacle DP that says to fly runway heading up to 1200' before turning and the Missed Approach for that same runway says to make a climbing left turn to 3000'. The TERPS people are figuring that you can make it to 3000 and not hit anything because you are starting at the Missed Approach Point and you're already at, say, 1000' (if that was the MDA). The TERPS guys aren't going to guarantee anything if you're starting at 500' and halfway down the runway, but you know you could easily climb to 1200' and then turn if you follow the DP. Could be a good reason to brief the DP along with the Missed I guess, but who does that?

I believe most missed procedures are written with a rejected landing in mind. When you reject below MDA, you simply climb on runway heading (unless otherwise specified) to MDA and re-intercept the prodecure guidance. Sometimes it's as simple as maintaining a localizer. Sometimes you have to make a turn and intercept the missed approach course. Different MAP = different scenario. I've gotten this question at every airline interview I've had.

For example, standard MAP guidance says during a rejected landing while circling, you make a climbing turn towards the landing runway.

Land, aim for the deer, and alert catering.

Turn off the landing light, no light=no deer in the headlights.

Turn off the landing light, no light=no deer in the headlights.

You're cookie is coming from the back of the plane. That is if the cookie is loose and you decelerate enough from hitting the deer that it comes up front.

You're cookie is coming from the back of the plane. That is if the cookie is loose and you decelerate enough from hitting the deer that it comes up front.

Maybe it's a turboprop. I'm sure someone has them/can post them...there are pics floating around of a King Air and a deer encounter. It wasn't good for either party, but the deer definitely got the short end of the stick.

-mini

Maybe it's a turboprop. I'm sure someone has them/can post them...there are pics floating around of a King Air and a deer encounter. It wasn't good for either party, but the deer definitely got the short end of the stick.

-mini

Guessing no roast, but plenty of ground venison...

nom nom nom

-mini

Replies
8
Views
899
Replies
57
Views
3K
Replies
0
Views
229
Replies
0
Views
170
Replies
0
Views
159