XJT Rejects SKW's Takeover Bid

[meritflyer]

Kristie,

Very true, but this board is about the airline business. When I was in the Navy and a standardization check airman in the DC-9, even though I was flying civilian model airline internationally, I wasn't "there" yet.

When I spent 7 years as an F/O, I wasn't there yet.

When I finally put on the 4th stripe in the Commercial airline world, I finally arrived at my goal. It took almost 20 years to get there.

I learn something new every day, so I guess you could make the argument I'm still not "there." Believe it or not, I even learn some stuff right here.

One of the things I've learned is that I never represent myself to have all the answers, especially in those areas I have no experience. You'll never see me posting on a CFI thread even though I have thousands of hours of military instructor time.

Its just not appropriate.

JMHO, but the measure of a successful airline career is when you don that 4th stripe at a major airline. You're "there", Baby!

:rawk:

Velo.. Velo.. Velo..

Who says being a captain is "getting there"? Seriously. I'll consider myself there when I am flying my own jet or turboprop around, or maybe when I am awarded a master CFI, or possibly when I take a retirement job as an FAA DPE. All of which, are different could easily be justified in some sense as "getting there". An airline captain isn't the see all, end all, I've made it status quo. I've flown with and jumpseated with guys who have the mentality that they're, what I called "Captain Continental". The guys couldn't get over the fact that they were captains and were realistically, probably a CRM hazard to be on the flight deck.

Guess what. When I am flying my 182 around, I sit in the left seat and I too, call myself captain when I order my 100LL at the FBO.

 

[wheelsup]

Rog, well. . .if this acquisition occurs I just hope we don't eventually see the same negative financial fate as MAG over the recent month and a half..

How you can compare SkyWest to Mesa baffles me. It would take an about face in SkyWest management to send them down the same path as Mesa.

 

[meritflyer]

Rog, well. . .if this acquisition occurs I just hope we don't eventually see the same negative financial fate as MAG over the recent month and a half.

Not much more to say than that.

Only time will tell I guess.

 

[MusketeerMan]

If you go back and look at what I quoted, and then what I bolded that may help.

It has nothing to do with being union or non-union.

But rather that I personally am not too excited to see another "Regional" holding company trying to take on another regional, and all the baggage that comes with it, especially in today's economy.

Mesa is the largest regional powerhouse, and look at the financial shape they are in. I'd hate to see SKW see the same fate.

Does that help?

This is so ironic to me that you of all people are worried about this. Umm..aren't you going to be flying for ASA shortly? Are they not owned by SkyWest? Does ASA not have one of the better contracts, yet they are owned by the "evil SkyWest"? Apparently all this baggage you're concerned with wasn't too big of a deal when you accepted the ASA job...??

anic: Trying hard to understand your reasoning...

 

[surreal1221]

We can keep going around in circles, but I prefer not to. I'm not too sure what me accepting a job at ASA has to do with my concern that I don't want my company (Skywest Inc.) to find themselves in the same financial shape as MAG. Further, I'm not sure who you're "quoting" in regards to the evil Skywest comment. . .but if it's me, then you might want to find my recent posting in one of these threads taking back essentially every negative thing I've said about a Skywest pilot or management that was communicated prior to me being employed by a Skywest Inc. company.

My last word on this is simple.

I want Skywest Inc. to stay strong. I do not feel that taking on another company is going to help with that endevour.

So just for good measure, I'll throw a smiley in as well. I'll gladly talk about this in private MM.

 

[mikecweb]

Kristie,

Very true, but this board is about the airline business. When I was in the Navy and a standardization check airman in the DC-9, even though I was flying civilian model airline internationally, I wasn't "there" yet.

When I spent 7 years as an F/O, I wasn't there yet.

When I finally put on the 4th stripe in the Commercial airline world, I finally arrived at my goal. It took almost 20 years to get there.

I learn something new every day, so I guess you could make the argument I'm still not "there." Believe it or not, I even learn some stuff right here.

One of the things I've learned is that I never represent myself to have all the answers, especially in those areas I have no experience. You'll never see me posting on a CFI thread even though I have thousands of hours of military instructor time.

Its just not appropriate.

JMHO, but the measure of a successful airline career is when you don that 4th stripe at a major airline. You're "there", Baby!

:rawk:

Remember though that's your opinion and that was your goal. Some others could be "there" in the left seat of a G-V, the right seat of a 76, and hell getting their private because that's all they want out of aviation. One thing I've learned is no one should set someone else's goals. My goals are different then your goals which are different then Doug's goals which are different then Tony's goals. The last thing we need is for every kid out there reading these forums to think they have failed unless they are a captain at a Major airline. To me if I end up being a captain at a major passenger airline and that's my last flying job, I have failed myself.
And by the way, there are test pilots out there that look at major airline captains as bus drivers, so not everyone thinks you're "there".:bandit:

 

[Kristie]

Kristie,

Very true, but this board is about the airline business. When I was in the Navy and a standardization check airman in the DC-9, even though I was flying civilian model airline internationally, I wasn't "there" yet.

When I spent 7 years as an F/O, I wasn't there yet.

When I finally put on the 4th stripe in the Commercial airline world, I finally arrived at my goal. It took almost 20 years to get there.

I learn something new every day, so I guess you could make the argument I'm still not "there." Believe it or not, I even learn some stuff right here.

One of the things I've learned is that I never represent myself to have all the answers, especially in those areas I have no experience. You'll never see me posting on a CFI thread even though I have thousands of hours of military instructor time.

Its just not appropriate.

JMHO, but the measure of a successful airline career is when you don that 4th stripe at a major airline. You're "there", Baby!

:rawk:

i gotcha!

but just to clarify...this particular "forum" is for the airline biz separate from all others whereas the "board" itself is for everyone, not *just* APs.

I think when everyone starts their careers towards "airline pilot" they see the end as a captain at a major airline...as they start moving towards that point, things change and each person's "there" becomes a bit of a different trek. Something i've had to learn in the past year, cuz i used to think that everyone's end all be all *should* be captain at a major....but it's not.....but i understand where you're coming from.

I too kinda think now, that you're really never *there*...you're always learning something new, experiencing new things etc....except maybe once you reach retirement... then you can actually say "you've done it all" when it comes to career goals.

but anyways, i'm all for staying on topic.. who else is with me?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

He has managed to fight off three union drives

Yeah, there's something to be proud of. :banghead:

People know I dislike Skywest WAY more then I dislike Mesa

Interesting. I haven't heard you say that before. How so? PM if you'd prefer.

Speaking of bonuses...wonder if the ALPA chiefs got bonuses on top of their nearly half-mil annual income...(salary & others).

ALPA Officers receive no bonuses, and none of them make anything even remotely approaching a half-million in annual income. Thanks for playing, though.

Kind of like how we have a union at our airline where the base salary of the president of the union is over $300,000? While we still have over a thousand greivances outstanding and (the new joke) a website that has "supposed to be open" for the last 2 years, while wasting union dues to do it? Do tell how thats any different.

I can't really respond to this without at least knowing what union you're referring to. What union represents you?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Remember though that's your opinion

Pretty much everything on this forum is opinion. Isn't that just a given?

 

[pat84106]

Yeah, there's something to be proud of. :banghead:

I am, considering what Alpa has done or should I say hasn't done in the last few years. I would hate myself if I had to keep lining the pockets of their leadership.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Your ALPA-hatred is unfounded, but I'll leave that aside for the sake of debate for now. You mentioned three failed union drives, not just the ALPA drives. The independent drive failed also. Atkin crushed it just like he crushed the ALPA drives. Is that something to be proud of? Atkin isn't anti-ALPA, he's anti-union. He doesn't want you to have a voice. He wants to keep you "in your place" so he doesn't have to answer to anyone but himself.

 

[meritflyer]

Your ALPA-hatred is unfounded, but I'll leave that aside for the sake of debate for now. You mentioned three failed union drives, not just the ALPA drives. The independent drive failed also. Atkin crushed it just like he crushed the ALPA drives. Is that something to be proud of? Atkin isn't anti-ALPA, he's anti-union. He doesn't want you to have a voice. He wants to keep you "in your place" so he doesn't have to answer to anyone but himself.

I'd say it was the pilots, not Jerry Atkin, that crushed the union drives at SKYW.

 

[pat84106]

Your ALPA-hatred is unfounded, but I'll leave that aside for the sake of debate for now. You mentioned three failed union drives, not just the ALPA drives. The independent drive failed also. Atkin crushed it just like he crushed the ALPA drives. Is that something to be proud of? Atkin isn't anti-ALPA, he's anti-union. He doesn't want you to have a voice. He wants to keep you "in your place" so he doesn't have to answer to anyone but himself.

I agree with Atkin 100% in terms of his stance on unions. Skywest is the best regional to work for hands down because we have a good mix of growth, job security and a management team that knows how to do business while treating us as employees with the most respect. I am happy that over the past 10 years my co-workers have denied union corruption a seat at the table. Skywest pilots are happy to be here and those that don't want to be a part of non-union skywest should not come here.

Unions like the UAW destroyed the US auto industry and have paved the way for companies like Honda, Toyota and Hyundai to come in and offer the same wages and benefits but without the union burden. Now you are seeing UAW members lose their jobs and force the shutdown of factories. You will see the same thing in the airline industry. Airlines like PCL and XJT who have such militant and blind unions will only end up in the un-employment line in the next few years because of their "burn it down" mentality. The union mentality of 1950's and 60s is out-dated and I hope for their sake these members change their attitudes or risk losing even more due to globalization.

Btw, it wasn't Atkin who crushed the drives it was the people on the organizing committees. Worst of all was the Alpa organizing committee this past round, most people were turned off by their unethical behavior such as demanding that people fill out cards in order to get a JS on a company airplane or leaving tons of propaganda in the airplanes on crew swaps, not to mention the threats, ect.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I'd say it was the pilots, not Jerry Atkin, that crushed the union drives at SKYW.

Atkin hired Ford & Harrison to carry out an anti-union campaign at Skywest. They sent out propaganda, tried to prohibit pilots from wearing ALPA lanyards or other insignia, etc... It was an intimidation campaign. Without that sort of action from the company, the outcome might have been different. This is why the government needs to strengthen laws against union busting. Employees should be able to make choices free of any intimidation or interference.

 

[stuckingfk]

I'd say it was the pilots, not Jerry Atkin, that crushed the union drives at SKYW.

I think all parties crushed it. There is anti-union propaganda from the company out there. They also have dangled a few carrots saying you'll get this if you don't vote ALPA in. Plus, all the Mesa and Eagle pilots there didn't help things.

I've talked to a few captains about the drive and they were disgusted with how they tried to sway them towards ALPA. A lot of "in your face" tactics and unprofessional behavior. Several of them were going to vote YES then switched to a NO because of the multiple harassing phone calls they received at home, not being able to hit up the shoe (b terminal) in Denver for food without talking to an ALPA rep, and their personal history with ALPA.

 

[pat84106]

I think all parties crushed it. There is anti-union propaganda from the company out there. They also have dangled a few carrots saying you'll get this if you don't vote ALPA in. Plus, all the Mesa and Eagle pilots there didn't help things.

I've talked to a few captains about the drive and they were disgusted with how they tried to sway them towards ALPA. A lot of "in your face" tactics and unprofessional behavior. Several of them were going to vote YES then switched to a NO because of the multiple harassing phone calls they received at home, not being able to hit up the shoe (b terminal) in Denver for food without talking to an ALPA rep, and their personal history with ALPA.

Exactly the methods used were almost to the point where some should have been terminated.

I did however like the free food at heidis, that was probably the only good thing about the alpa drive.

 

[johnso28]

I'd say it was the pilots, not Jerry Atkin, that crushed the union drives at SKYW.

NO, ALPA had to fight Skywest management in order to have the drive. They had to fight in court to be able to distribute literature. That means they were fighting Skywest management. J.A. is the one who scared his newbies into voting NO for ALPA.

A lot of people don't understand what unions do FOR YOU as a pilot. They think they are just there for contract negotiations. It's sad really. Do you have any idea what kind of services are provided? Legal assistance, financial assistance, marriage and family counseling, counseling for stress caused by aircraft accidents or incidents, Mentoring programs, Substance abuse programs which help you keep your job if you turn yourself in, the list goes on and on. Who helps you if run off the runway? Who helps you when you lose your job, furlough or fire? There are so many MORE things that ALPA does than just contract negotiations. Sadly, many at Skywest wear blinders to these things. They could have so much more, but they choose not to.

 

[johnso28]

Exactly the methods used were almost to the point where some should have been terminated.

I did however like the free food at heidis, that was probably the only good thing about the alpa drive.

Nevermind, my comment's uncalled for.

 

[Bumblebee]

<edited>

here from a guy that sees only black and white in a world filled with gray, for some reason continues to call Flight Attendants "stews" and attempts to insinuate that I have no backbone.

o.k. K you said for me to be nice, I thought the way I put the fact that this guy is hardheaded and can not grasp the concept of subtlety was far better than a comment such as the one posted above. I thought I was stating a fact in a non vitriolic way.
I'm sorry that I did not live up to the standards you set. I will follow your suggestion . . .

 

[pat84106]

<edited>

Thats fine.

Its really not about you and me its about what the pilots want and from what the last year has show most don't want alpa (colgan, skywest and Usair).

I agree with you on one thing, there need to be more laws in this country to protect the rights of workers. Like laws that allow those who want to remain free of a union to do so without having to still pay dues if they don't feel the need to. Or make voting rules more simple as Yes and No and not Yes and Yes as was the case with the "phone voting" that alpa did at skywest where the only option for voting no was not voting at all.