will it change?

B

buffalopilot

Well-Known Member
To all you guys who have been around for awhile,

Looking at the decrease in pay lately, do you think it will ever go back?

Has it ever gone this low before and recovered?
 
buffalopilot said:
To all you guys who have been around for awhile,

Looking at the decrease in pay lately, do you think it will ever go back?

Has it ever gone this low before and recovered?
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Thats what I wonder, It hard to stay optemistic about the airlines and airline pay. I read some 36000 pilots to retire in upcoming years and have talked to some people saying thell be screaming for pilots in the future and with that I would guess should come better pay, I really dont know.

Just My 2
 
John Herreshoff said:
Only if people stop wearing headsets.

Seriously why do you post this stuff once a week?
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John I think this is a valid question. He knows the industry is cyclical, but he's asking how cyclical.
 
The guy has questions. He wants to get the most information possible before he probably makes a big financial commitment. I dont blame him for asking a ton of question, I would too. I actually do, just not as often.
 
"Has it ever gone this low before and recovered?"

I don't really remember pay going down over the other cycles so much as this. During the down cycles airlines contracted in size and that resulted in furloughs but pay has never been attacked like it has been now.
 
buffalopilot said:
Management probably just found out how low the pilots will go.
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And the pilots are finding out how low pilots will go. ALPA has lost it's control of the pilot supply. Couple that with the leverage of bankruptcy and we are finding the free market value of pilots.

It is hard to imagine a scenario that ever brings pilot pay back to the high water mark. But things should stabilize post bankruptcy and industry restructuring.

And no, the industry has never had a down cycle like this one.
 
Every mainline guy / gal with whom I speak guesses it'll take another 40+ years to get the payrates back. I'll guess at least 20. Management has learned the "contract it out" game very well. They know what it takes to win, and could care less about employees.

That's the American way. Look at your clothes, electronics, and everything else you buy. How much of it is actually made (not assembled) in the US? Not much. Airlines are simply finally learning that contracting allows the upper tier to make tons of cash.
 
Bog said:
They know what it takes to win, and could care less about employees.

That's the American way. Look at your clothes, electronics, and everything else you buy. How much of it is actually made(not assembled) in the US? Not much. Airlines are simply finally learning that contracting allows the upper tier to make tons of cash.
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Except this makes no sense based on what has actually happened. Nobody is making tons of cash, instead the legacies have lost massive amounts of money. Golden parachutes not withstanding, the upper management would have made lots more by simply running profitable companies. And the current management that replaced them are making much less than their predecessors.

So where's the "winning"? Where are the "tons of cash"? The legacies had no choice but to lower their below wing labor costs. And the ALPA wasn't opposed to them contracting these jobs out because they knew that only profitable airlines can pay high cockpit wages. But the airlines ended up insolvent and bankrupt anyway.

No profits = no airlines = no pilot jobs at any wage.
 
Oh I think it's very legit, it's just who it's coming from. Here's a list of the last few posts from this guy.

1. What's the upgrade at Colgan?

2. Screw Colgan, the pay sucks!

3. What was the upgrade at Colgan again?

4. The aviation industry sucks!

5. Where are Colgan bases?

6. I want to stay in the medical field!

7. Does Colgan make you fly the 1900?

8. I hate this industry, I'm taking my ball and going home.

9. Do you think it'll get better?
 
And what were your last 10 posts, John? :)

Edit: not that mine were necessarily better, just defending those not present :D
 
flyover said:
Nobody is making tons of cash, instead the legacies have lost massive amounts of money.
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Paper losses are meaningless. However, I think that pilots, as a whole, were (read: UAL's Feb '01 contract) overpaid initially, especially the upper tear. Those that say "first year pay is so crappy", well it is, but where do you spend most of your career? At the bottom or the top (even at a regional)? Do you want 3 years making $25k instead of $35k-$40k as an FO vs. 10+ years making $100k vs. $65k as a CA at a mid-tier regional?

And for those people who lashed out at BobDuck - who says an Airbus CA is worth $120k/year? Or $90k? Or $250k? While people hate ALPA, IMO it has done a good job of setting high payrates when you look at what pilots actually do for a living. 1113(c) filings put a pretty big cramp in their style however...
 
Respectfully, I dont think that anyone needs to point out anyones posts. Maybe this is a guy that is truly thinking of joining the aviation field and has a little hesitation due to some of the crummy factors that are going on right now.

I think we've all asked some pretty dumb questions. :)
 
Hey, just quoting my boy Vin Diesel. Do you see a headset on him in my avatar? No, you see a shotgun.

I rest my case.
 
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