Who puts together the contract comparison guides?
- Thread starter bLizZuE
- Start date
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
SWAPA put something together that compared the big 4 and then some. It was pretty good to see where we stood among the groups.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Commissioned by individual MECs. Data is usually compiled by E&FA, then the Comm Department makes it all pretty. Usually the Comm Chair and NC (and some MECs have a “contract study committee” also) are involved.
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
Was on a SWA JS a few weeks ago and got to take a look at theirs compared to what Dapla put out. It was about the same but from each prospective. So so far from what I have seen it's been mostly correct.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
This is mostly no longer the case. E&FA often times don't have a good understanding of specific contract provisions, so beyond hard data like pay and fleet counts, a lot of stuff is compiled by people at the property doing the comparison and then verified through personal contacts at the other properties. We are doing one right now and it's being done by the NC and part of the Comm committee along with some assistance from E&FA.
Funny story... not everything in the comparisons are accurate when talking about other properties. Two years ago an airline put out a comparison that had inaccurate data about a specific scope protection of ours. We were currently heading towards arbitration over that very thing and the company's best evidence (according to them) was that "ALPA" said they could do it as there was no protection. Fortunately we settled prior to having to drag somebody from that other airline's NC out to the arbitration so our attorney could put them on the stand to state that they were wrong and hadn't verified their data with anybody before publishing it.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Contract comparisons can be, eh, iffy, if you are looking for something specific.
Most contracts at majors are products of many decades of cumulative negotiations and changes, and are seasoned by the peculiarities of each operator. Each one has their nuances that you can only really get if you understand the "gestalt" of the airline in question.
The comparison may say "Bumblefrack Airlines has a trip rig of X", but only after diving into the contract at the PHD level to you find out that they define trip rig with a different set of parameters, making the comparison essentially worthless.
If you're going to compare, stick to big deal, high level concepts. If you want to be an instructor pilot, for example, make sure that the contract at the place you're looking at doesn't outsource the IP gig.
Most contracts at majors are products of many decades of cumulative negotiations and changes, and are seasoned by the peculiarities of each operator. Each one has their nuances that you can only really get if you understand the "gestalt" of the airline in question.
The comparison may say "Bumblefrack Airlines has a trip rig of X", but only after diving into the contract at the PHD level to you find out that they define trip rig with a different set of parameters, making the comparison essentially worthless.
If you're going to compare, stick to big deal, high level concepts. If you want to be an instructor pilot, for example, make sure that the contract at the place you're looking at doesn't outsource the IP gig.
bLizZuE
Calling for engine starts en français
Have you seen the comparison guides? Because it’s almost a one for one comparison of every feature of the contracts. So if airline A has a trip rig, it compares it to airline B and C. It also tells you the details of each rig. This isn’t PhD anything. Nothing we do is.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
It is a one for one... but how each company implements various things or what other rules or rigs underpin the one you are looking at, or the type of trips you fly make a 1 to 1 not always so useful.
For example... outside of inter island flying we don't have a min daily credit. Other places have 5 hours. Our guys see that and get all hot and bothered by it, without even pausing to realizing that we don't fly anywhere that is less 5 hours away.