Who Pays??? CFI, employer, or combo

Maddog1974

Well-Known Member
So I just need some opinions on flight school and aircraft checkout. Here is the SITREP:

Flight Instructor - ASEL, AMEL, Instrument airplane

Here are the situations:

School "a" - allows free lance instructors to use school aircraft. Require 700 TT before instructing in multi.

School "b" - hires flight instructor for full time basis and pays small gaurantee and hourly rate if you get over certain number of hours each month. Insurance gives thumbs up for multi instruction but requires 5 hrs dual rcvd and 10 hours solo.

In each case the school does a checkout in the airplane no problem. School "b" even goes so far as to standardize the instructor for about 2-4 hours in aircraft.

The question I have and answer I will oresent after are where I need clarification. 1) I can understand paying for a checkout at the school that does free lance, I just don't know how to justify it. The school wins if you instruct students, wouldn't they be more than happy to put you in aircraft for a few hours? 2) If an instructor works for a school exclusively/full time who would pay for the checkout there? Solo time?

I appreciate again the help with this fellas. I am just trying to figure out how to stay current in multi-engine without killing my checking account any further.

I keep looking forward to a better economy!!

Thanks!!:confused:
 

NickH

Uber Driver
INSTRUCTORS DO NOT PAY FOR CHECKOUTS.

If asked to, walk away. Don't even try to negotiate, you learned enough about what it will be like to work for that school.

As for the multi, that's between you and the school. If they need you to instruct in it from day one, then they should pay for it. Most flight schools do. If not, then they should at least help you pick up the hours with maintenance flights, which might take a little while.

Of course, as the airline wannabes start getting desparate to build time giving poor instruction, schools will start taking advantage.
 

taildragger173

Well-Known Member
If you're a free lance, independent contract flight instructor paying for a check out is not the responsibility of the rental agency. If its a flight school on the other hand, and you're employed there then its a different story.
 

jrh

Well-Known Member
INSTRUCTORS DO NOT PAY FOR CHECKOUTS.

If asked to, walk away. Don't even try to negotiate, you learned enough about what it will be like to work for that school.

As for the multi, that's between you and the school. If they need you to instruct in it from day one, then they should pay for it. Most flight schools do. If not, then they should at least help you pick up the hours with maintenance flights, which might take a little while.
:yeahthat:

The only time it would be appropriate for a CFI to pay for a checkout would be if they are an independent instructor who is merely joining a pool of instructors who are all responsible for bringing in their own clients. The instructor should pay in such a case because there is no guarantee to the school that the school will benefit from having the new instructor. If the instructor doesn't bring in any business, the school could potentially take a loss by providing the checkout.

But for a traditional flight school with a limited staff of instructors...no question, the school should pay for the checkout.
 

Douglas

Old School KSUX
I agree with all that has been said.
Don't pay for a check out, if you are an employee.

I might have read it wrong but the school wants you to buy a total of 15 hours in their twin before you can instruct in it? ABSOLUTELY NOT, it is going to take a lot of multi engine students before you start to make money on that investment. It sounds like the flight school is looking to see what they can get away with.

let your multi-currency lapse if you have no need to be current, you are right, it is expensive.

I like your avitar!
 

Maddog1974

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comment from all! I think I may be moving on to another flight school when I can find one.

<----- I want one of those for Christmas, Next Year!!
 

Boris Badenov

Just running in to a burning house...
There's how it should be, and how it is. Never the twain shall meet. I was lucky enough to instruct during a time when instructors were in (relative) demand, so I never had to deal with these sorts of issues. That said, hard lines in sand are always walked across. You can do the walking, or someone else can. That's not to say that it's wrong to blacklist guys for crossing picket lines, etc (I would too). However, you have to do a cost-benefit analysis for your future. Take care of yourself, because the dudes who talk about all the things you shouldn't do talk a big game when they're protecting themselves, but they aren't going to pay your bills and thank you when you're unemployed. The market dictates, we just try to get by.

And while I don the nomex, let me add that I don't find this view to be incompatible with loathing those who would step on others to get ahead. That's part of the equation, too. For example, I wouldn't go to work for that one company that begins with a "go" and ends with a "jet" if I could possibly avoid it, and I for damn sure would never cross a picket line under any circumstances. But it would be a decision based on a matrix of factors, not some arbitrary line drawn by a group of extremely interested people. It's a game. You don't have to like it, but you have to play it.
 

Maddog1974

Well-Known Member
Thanks Boris!! You wouldn't happen to be an ex-soviet fight er pilot gone freight dawg would you??:D

Just kidding, but i appreciate your post all the same!
 

Douglas

Old School KSUX
I want to reiterate that, how it is, is how it should be.
You normally are not expected to pay for check out if you are an employee.
 

jrh

Well-Known Member
There's how it should be, and how it is. Never the twain shall meet. I was lucky enough to instruct during a time when instructors were in (relative) demand, so I never had to deal with these sorts of issues. That said, hard lines in sand are always walked across. You can do the walking, or someone else can. That's not to say that it's wrong to blacklist guys for crossing picket lines, etc (I would too). However, you have to do a cost-benefit analysis for your future. Take care of yourself, because the dudes who talk about all the things you shouldn't do talk a big game when they're protecting themselves, but they aren't going to pay your bills and thank you when you're unemployed. The market dictates, we just try to get by.

And while I don the nomex, let me add that I don't find this view to be incompatible with loathing those who would step on others to get ahead. That's part of the equation, too. For example, I wouldn't go to work for that one company that begins with a "go" and ends with a "jet" if I could possibly avoid it, and I for damn sure would never cross a picket line under any circumstances. But it would be a decision based on a matrix of factors, not some arbitrary line drawn by a group of extremely interested people. It's a game. You don't have to like it, but you have to play it.
Boris speaks the truth. You do have to watch out for yourself.

That said, I stand by my original idea that any school that makes their instructors pay for a checkout doesn't care much about the instructor.

I'm only offering that as a warning to the work environment that awaits a new-hire instructor.

I don't see how this is some "arbitrary line" or how I'm an "extremely interested" person. I have nothing to gain one way or the other. If an instructor goes out and pays for a checkout, they're not hurting me in any way. All they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot. If they decide it's worth it to them, great. Personally, I only want to work for places that treat their instructors with more respect, but if somebody else decides they're willing to settle for less, that's fine. Good luck to them.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
If a flight school, when I was a CFI, required me to pay for a checkout, I'd probably walk next door to the competition.

Heck, 90% of the time when we got a new airplane that I hadn't flown before, I'd just hop in and start flight instructing out of it. Maybe a little crazy, but a single-engine fix gear is pretty much a single-engine fixed gear.
 

Maddog1974

Well-Known Member
I do think I am going to move on to another flight school as soon as I find one. I also think I will be letting my multi currency lapse until and unless i can find a FTD or right seat I can warm.

Thanks for the advice from everyone!

And one last thing.....WOW....I got a comment from Doug! Maybe that's Mr Taylor to me.....I feel special!:nana2:

Seriously though....Thank You!

Bottom line i am getting from all is that a single engine checkout is no big deal and I should not pay for it. As for the multi i should either find a scholl that needs an instructor and is willing to work with me to get hours in type or just hope for ferry or maintenance flights to get some time in the aircraft.

Does that sound about right?? Thanks again
 

Boris Badenov

Just running in to a burning house...
I didn't mean for that to sound like it was aimed at anyone here, and I think maybe I was a little fast out of the blocks on the subject. If I had a choice, I'd always rather work for a company that treated me with respect.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
If a flight school, when I was a CFI, required me to pay for a checkout, I'd probably walk next door to the competition.

Heck, 90% of the time when we got a new airplane that I hadn't flown before, I'd just hop in and start flight instructing out of it. Maybe a little crazy, but a single-engine fix gear is pretty much a single-engine fixed gear.
Agree with Doug. Back when I was instructing, we got the snazzy new G1000 172 with some "interesting" insurance requirements, like a ground school and 5 hours of dual. Well, the schooled tossed me in a ground school they already had scheduled, and then tossed me the keys, squeezed me in the plane with another instructor and the one instructor we had that was checked out and said "Fly to Indiana (or was it Illinois?) and back." By the time we got back, both the other instructor and I had the ground school and the dual to instruct in the plane. Cost to us: lunch wherever the heck we went.

Now the real kick in the pants was the flight back. Since I flew up, and was checked out, the instructor that was flying with me got to drink beer at lunch since I could do the instruction on the way back. He'll remain nameless, but his name rhymes with Brian McWinnis. :)
 

tgrayson

New Member
I can understand paying for a checkout at the school that does free lance, I just don't know how to justify it. The school wins if you instruct students, wouldn't they be more than happy to put you in aircraft for a few hours?
While you can argue that an instructor "ought" not to have to pay for checkouts, I think it's better to focus on which situation meets your own needs. If school "a" has other attributes that you value, then paying for a checkout may benefit you.

My previous school required that the instructor pay for checkouts. The school, overall, was poorly run, disorganized, and didn't monitor the instructor or customer activities very closely. In other words, they let me do what I want with no outside interference, and I liked that. Their disorganization worked to my benefit. School "b" in your scenario sounds too structured for my tastes. I'm sure it benefits the school, but it would not have benefited me.
 

skydog

New Member
Regarding "school B": is the 5 dual/10 solo required in THEIR airplane? Or do you just need to have the time in that particular aircraft type?
 
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