Which path to follow?

[NoSoup4U]

Hey everyone,
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Lately, I have been thinking deeply about my career aspirations. All I have ever wanted to do is become a pilot and fly airplanes for a living. This has been a goal of mine for as long as I can remember. Everything about flight and airplanes has fascinated me since I was a young kid. My parents always told me that I would constantly look up and point to the sky and track airplanes. I went to every air show imaginable, and read books about airplanes, etc. There wasn’t a doubt in my mind that flying airplanes wanted to do for a living. <O
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Now, I love flying more than anything but I also research everything before I get involved with it. Therefore, I am very aware of the sacrifices, and hardship involved in becoming a professional pilot. I have heard horror stories from friends who are <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com</O
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After high school, I went to a community college and focused on finding what I wanted to study. I know a college education is important, not only to fulfill the degree requirement for some jobs in aviation, but also for personal gratification and to broaden my options for alternate non-aviation related careers. Another core reason I wanted to complete my college education was to become eligible to apply for a pilot slot for a branch of the military, specifically the Air Force. Becoming a military pilot/officer has always been my ultimate goal. I received my B.S. in a health related field, and I just began working on my Masters degree in the same field. I wanted to continue my education in the health field because I enjoy the topics/material and it is in high demand. After high school, I also began flying at 19 years old but I never completed my private. I just turned 26 years old, and have not flown for over one year. The last time I flew, I took my first solo cross-country flight. It was an incredible feeling of accomplishment, but unfortunately that was the last time I flew. I have very large gaps in my training (some are 3+ years at a time), which is obviously not the best for retention and my wallet. I now have a fulltime job with benefits and enough money to live off of, but still not great. After I finish my M.S., my plans were to become a college professor and a strength coach. This plan is still a smart move and a very safe option. I always use my head when thinking of my options and tend to go for the safer move consisting of a sound job. Unfortunately, the plans I have are interfering with my true passion in life (aviation). When I am done with graduate school, I can complete my certificates and fly as a hobby or build hours to eventually do it as a career. I don’t think I will be completely satisfied with only flying as a hobby. <O
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So, I feel as though I must make a decision quickly. I have a few options and I am not sure which one to follow. Even though only I will know the path that is right for me, outside opinions will be extremely helpful. <O
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My options:<O
1.) Complete graduate school (3 half semesters left, graduate in spring 2011), and finish flight training after school is done.<O
2.) Leave graduate school, and begin flight training immediately in order to apply for a pilot slot in the AF. I see this option as being the only way to flight train fast enough to get at least my PP-ASEL because working more than full-time, taking 9 units of graduate work, and flying would be one hell of an undertaking.<O
3.) Leave graduate school, and begin flight training for career building the civilian route. <O
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If I stay in graduate school, I feel as though my chances of receiving a pilot slot in the AF are close to nil, because I will be almost 28 years old. I would have to get picked up on the first board. This would destroy my goals of flying in the military, and I just don’t think I could sit back and let that opportunity pass me by. On the contrary, if I leave graduate school, I feel as if I will have thrown a lot of hard work out the window, and will destroy a lot of opportunities in the health field. The hardest part is taking a chance on the less stable, more certain road you know? Even though aviation is unstable, I still think I have to take that chance to see what the future holds and to follow my heart, not my head. <O></O>
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If you got through that entire post, thank you for reading. <O

 

[Mike H]

Lots of people apply for pilot slots in the military. Only a small percentage of applicants are accepted. And a significant percentage of those who start flight training wash out before they finish flight training. One source I read said that plenty of people who already have their private pilot's license wash out of USAF basic flight school.

I don't know that the actual flying is much different, but procedures are exacting and their way is the only right way of doing anything.

One other thing to consider: If you wash out of pilot training in the military, you're still in the military- just not as a pilot.

 

[Airdale]

Holy cow man, you've got quite the decision to make. Obviously you already know that it comes down to what you think is ultimately the best for you.

First of all, do you require any flight time or certificates to apply to the Air Force? Does the Air Force guarantee you a pilot slot prior to signing any papers?

These are really important questions that need answers. To my knowledge (and I'm probably wrong), the military won't guarantee you a pilot slot. You have to go in through OCS, and hope to get a pilot slot. The thing to remember, is that the military route guarantees you NOTHING in aviation. Are you willing to go in the Air Force and do a tour in a non-flying position? If you're not willing to do that, scratch the military option. It is difficult to get a flying position in the military, not impossible, but difficult. Your destiny will lie heavily upon the decisions of others.

If you're only desire is to fly for the military, than obviously you go that route and try like hell to get that pilot slot.

If you're desire is just to fly airplanes for a living, than you may want to consider the civilian route, because you will have much better chance of actually flying for a living.

No rush to get your training done though....the airlines aren't going anywhere and the industry is very slow. But become aware of what life is like as a pilot. I would definitely finish grad school though...that sounds like a no brainer. Try to get your PPL on the side while you finish that out.

 

[Superfly7XAF]

There are no guarantees in the military.

I got my pilot slot with the USAF earlier this year and am waiting on getting my FC1 done among other things before leaving for OTS. It's been a gamble the whole way and you have to be committed to taking some chances if you want to fly for the military, it's just the nature of the beast.

 

[at1024]

Here's another option. I don't know how you feel about this, but you could drop back to half time status at school and squeeze in some time each week to get your private out of the way. And then make a decision from there.

 

[Tld]

Don't drop out. I never quite finished my Masters, and I wish I had. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe to start any kind of flight training in the many branches of the military, even if you have prior flight training, you must be under age 27 and have completed OCS. However, the military may be a great route for you in other ways. I know of one fellow JC'er who flies for a regional and is a loadmaster for the AF reserve as well. The AF reserve paid his way through his ratings, but he doesnt fly for them specifically...just a thought.

That being said, if you dream of flying, you have to pursue it, it's a dream that will never die. My advice is to try and fly at least once or twice a month while you finish school. It can be frustrating sometimes, but I chose the slow & steady route and I have never regretted it. It has given me the opportunity to investigate many different aviation career paths, fly some amazing aircraft, make some great contacts, and more importantly, some great friends. Start flying again and the path you should choose will become clearer, I promise.

 

[CBpilot]

NoSoup,

Just some food for thought, I am not quite sure how the AF works but in the Army if you get selected for a street to seat spot to fly rotors and you wash out you are locked into your contract. ie... you thought you were gonna fly and now you are WO pushing papers.

Be careful with the military route because if for some reason you cannot make it through flight training you will probably be locked into your contract. Just make sure you are committed to the cause. Regardless if you are a pilot or a medic you first job is as an Airmen and like any service it is needs of the military.

That said, the military is great. I loved my time in the Army and would not exchange it for anying in the world.

CB

 

[germb747]

If you want to join the military, be prepared to answer to yourself "What do I bring to the fight". Yes, fight. Your job will be to kill people and break things. So join because you want to serve your country as a military officer and defend what this country stands for.

Okay, you can decide you want to compete for just a pilot slot. It's totally up to you to accept or decline the AFSC you're offered before signing on the dotted line, for OTS (including Air Reserve Componet applicants). But, then you must successfully complete training and remain qualified (physically and otherwise). If you're not able to successfully complete training, then you're subject to the needs and whims of the Air Force and will be locked into a service committment lasting up to 8 years at that point. You could be sent to another career field, or maybe given an entry-level separation; it's totally up to the powers that be. However, the Air Force can't decide what it wants in terms of manning, so depending on whether you catch the feast or the famine, they might even pay you to get out early. Or, "they" might decide you'd be a great cop. Who knows?

If it's worth it to you, I say "go for it". The hardest part is getting selected in the first place, so if you can manage that and pass all the screening you're subject to before arriving at flight school, chances are you'll succeed. I really wouldn't say a "significant" percentage "wash out" of flight school. The vast majority of the students make it through. We only had one student wash out of our class because they couldn't fly. One gave up and quit; a small handful washed out on academic busts at the very beginning (really no excuse for that if you have a college degree and know how to take tests). Point is--if they've selected you, you most likely have what it takes to get through.

 

[NoSoup4U]

First of all, I want to thank you all for replying and replying so promptly at all. Second, why the hell do I have a bunch of smilies in my post, because I sure didn't put them there.

This is definitely a tough decision for me, as I have been fighting with it for some time. Don't get me wrong, I like college and learning in general but graduate school has not provided me with a more in depth knowledge of the body. What is will give me is how to write my own research. I am doing it to provide more opportunities for myself in the health field. It is very difficult to walk to class or be in my quantitative statistics class for my thesis doing math and hearing all types of aircraft fly by because my University is right near the airport I was learning to fly. It definitely makes me realize how much I miss flying.

The smart thing to do would be to stay in school until I finish and complete training considering the aviation business has a lack of jobs. Then again, a lot of pilots say the best time to do flight training is during a downturn in the aviation business. This is tough because I don't feel like I can flight train and actualy study for the material along with my 9 units of school work and working full time. I have one full time job and two part time jobs. I quit one part time one because I didn't have the time anymore. Between my jobs and school work I don't get much sleep. I am still doing very well in school but I think I have found my cap, because I barely have free time. I also can't cut down to much on units because I need to be full time for my masters to receive financial aid. Instead of three classes next semester, I may drop down to two for my sanity ha ha. I was thinking to myself, I wonder if I started flying again this summer, could I start hard/fast enough to relearn all the material in 2.5 months to finish my PPL? I hope so and this may be an option. I am a little afraid that if I wait to long to train I will miss the next upswing in the industry (even though I don't know how many jobs would arise even if it got better since there are many high time pilots applying), and training keeps getting more expensive.

Lots of things to think about.

 

[NoSoup4U]

If you want to join the military, be prepared to answer to yourself "What do I bring to the fight". Yes, fight. Your job will be to kill people and break things. So join because you want to serve your country as a military officer and defend what this country stands for.

If you're not able to successfully complete training, then you're subject to the needs and whims of the Air Force and will be locked into a service committment lasting up to 8 years at that point. You could be sent to another career field, or maybe given an entry-level separation; it's totally up to the powers that be.

If it's worth it to you, I say "go for it". The hardest part is getting selected in the first place, so if you can manage that and pass all the screening you're subject to before arriving at flight school, chances are you'll succeed.

Reply: I have definitely thought a lot about the "fight" for sure, and it is no doubt a reality. I would join the military to become and officer and fly, but that's what I am debating about as well. Would I be satified getting a pilot slot and later getting medically DQ'ed, thus ending up in non flying position? I can't imagine any pilot being happy with that but like many people said that is definitely the gamble that needs to be taken. I guess I am asking myself "would it be worth the gamble". I am very proud of our military and have a lot of respect for all positions, and I would hold my head up high as an officer regardless of being an aviator or not. I think of the military being something bigger than any one person, and it takes unity among all individuals to get the job done. One aspect I love about the military is sense of brotherood, so to speak, among military personel.

There are no guarantees in the military.

It's been a gamble the whole way and you have to be committed to taking some chances if you want to fly for the military, it's just the nature of the beast.

Reply: That is very true, and I am really trying to figure out what I want out of life, and if the gamble would be worth it regardless of the outcome.

First of all, do you require any flight time or certificates to apply to the Air Force? Does the Air Force guarantee you a pilot slot prior to signing any papers?

These are really important questions that need answers. To my knowledge (and I'm probably wrong), the military won't guarantee you a pilot slot. You have to go in through OCS, and hope to get a pilot slot. The thing to remember, is that the military route guarantees you NOTHING in aviation. Are you willing to go in the Air Force and do a tour in a non-flying position? If you're not willing to do that, scratch the military option.
If you're only desire is to fly for the military, than obviously you go that route and try like hell to get that pilot slot.

If you're desire is just to fly airplanes for a living, than you may want to consider the civilian route, because you will have much better chance of actually flying for a living.

No rush to get your training done though....the airlines aren't going anywhere and the industry is very slow. But become aware of what life is like as a pilot. I would definitely finish grad school though...that sounds like a no brainer. Try to get your PPL on the side while you finish that out.

Reply: From what I have researched through Baseops and Wantscheck, the AF doesn't require a PPL or flight time to receive a slot. With that said, it would be a very good idea to receive my PPL to show I am serious about flying and I know that I have a passion for it. What I don't want to do is applying with being 'almost' done with my PPL, because I think the board will look at my package and say, "he came so far, why wouldn't he finish?", "or "why does he have more than the necessary flight time to complete the PPL, why not finish?" I will likely apply to ANG, Active duty, and reserve slots which all guarantee you a slot before signing papers if you are awarded one, but medical disqualifications and failing out will obviously eliminate the chance of flying and possibly other factors. One thing I remember reading though, is that the FC1 medical (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe occurs after joining and if you fail that, you can kiss the slot goodbye. That does scare me a bit considering it is a gamble because that can be game over right there from an aviation standpoint. From what I have read you will fly if those two factors I explain don't occur.

 

[Superfly7XAF]

I will likely apply to ANG, Active duty, and reserve slots which all guarantee you a slot before signing papers if you are awarded one, but medical disqualifications and failing out will obviously eliminate the chance of flying and possibly other factors. One thing I remember reading though, is that the FC1 medical (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe occurs after joining and if you fail that, you can kiss the slot goodbye.

You're wrong. Some guys get their physical before even applying, some after acceptance (me), and some after the fact.

1) Age critical guys can get their FC1 done before applying.
2) I don't have to fulfill any commitment and am getting my FC1 done before signing anything, even swearing into DEP.
3) Most ROTC guys and all AFA guys are committed no matter what pass or fail. (not your situation, I know, just an example)

Also working on your PPL won't hurt you, flight hrs help increase your PCSM score and having some flight time is better than none, especially if you are going ANG/Res.

 

[NoSoup4U]

You're wrong. Some guys get their physical before even applying, some after acceptance (me), and some after the fact.

1) Age critical guys can get their FC1 done before applying.
2) I don't have to fulfill any commitment and am getting my FC1 done before signing anything, even swearing into DEP.
3) Most ROTC guys and all AFA guys are committed no matter what pass or fail. (not your situation, I know, just an example)

Also working on your PPL won't hurt you, flight hrs help increase your PCSM score and having some flight time is better than none, especially if you are going ANG/Res.

Thanks Superfly, that's definitely assuring news. I'm not sure where I remember reading/hearing that there were two medicals, one before signing up and two after swearing in. Every now and then you hear of those horror stories of guys getting a slot and having some minor defect of the heart that doesn't effect normal function but disqualifies them for flying. What you're saying is that I would know if I would get medically disqualified before any making the commitment to the AF whether that be Active, reserve or ANG, by having all testing including EKG, etc., correct?

Even though flight hours will help raise my PCSM score, I am afraid to apply without having a PPL because the board may judge me negatively by having more than the minimum hours required to get my private but not actually holding a private certificate. I feel as if I need to complete it before applying but then I will be wasting time as another board is before summer. Do you think I should just apply even though I don't have it finished? I really need to get that done when I have some time, which will hopefully be this summer.

I appreciate all the advice I have been given so far, and I wish you the best of luck in flight school. Thanks!

 

[Superfly7XAF]

Thanks Superfly, that's definitely assuring news. I'm not sure where I remember reading/hearing that there were two medicals, one before signing up and two after swearing in. Every now and then you hear of those horror stories of guys getting a slot and having some minor defect of the heart that doesn't effect normal function but disqualifies them for flying. What you're saying is that I would know if I would get medically disqualified before any making the commitment to the AF whether that be Active, reserve or ANG, by having all testing including EKG, etc., correct?

Even though flight hours will help raise my PCSM score, I am afraid to apply without having a PPL because the board may judge me negatively by having more than the minimum hours required to get my private but not actually holding a private certificate. I feel as if I need to complete it before applying but then I will be wasting time as another board is before summer. Do you think I should just apply even though I don't have it finished? I really need to get that done when I have some time, which will hopefully be this summer.

I appreciate all the advice I have been given so far, and I wish you the best of luck in flight school. Thanks!

Correct more or less. I can tell you that I'm not committed to the AF right now. I have not signed anything or sworn in and can decline my commission if I choose. I won't be fully committed until I swear in before leaving for OTS. You will have a medical screening at MEPS before even applying, but it's not too in depth. If and when you're selected, then you'll get your FC1 done and you'll wait until it's approved before leaving for OTS. If it's not approved you'll be medically DQ'd from being a pilot and reclassified into another job. At this point you should still have the option to decline your commission if you so choose and return to civilian life.

It sounds like you're going to be shooting for the 10OT03 board next spring, that is if you're going AD. FYI, -03 boards usually pick less applicants than -01 boards. To give you an idea, last fiscal year (FY09) there were only 32 pilots selected from the -03 board, however for the previous -01 board there were 116 pilots selected; something to think about.

As far as flight hours are concerned it seems you're of the mind that the board will think you don't have any follow through when it comes to getting your PPL or that you're not serious about it. It's a legitimate concern and I guess it comes down to how much flight time were talking about. If you have over 100 hrs and don't have a PPL then you might be right, but if you're still in double digits then I don't think it will impact you negatively, just my opinion. Regardless, you will be able to explain why you haven't finished it in your personal statement if you feel you need to.

Trust me at this point you have nothing but time. Research the process and don't let a recruiter bull**** you. Here are some links to help you out.

Everything for applying to OTS: http://airforceots.com/portal/index.php
ANG process: http://wantscheck.com/PilotSlotResources/ANGPilotSlot/tabid/63/Default.aspx
Great thread by fellow JC'er mhcasey: http://forums.jetcareers.com/military-pilots/93994-aspiring-military-aviators.html
Also check out the boards at http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/ and http://www.wantscheck.org/Default.aspx?tabid=73

Hope that helps.

 

[ian]

military flying is pretty fun man...i had close to 300 hours and now i'm around 430, still in UPT, and absolutely love the military flying over the civilian flying....one thing to think about too is if you don't finish UPT you only have a 5 year commitment....not the 10 if you would have graduated UPT....which will be both good for you and look pretty dang good on a resume.....just something to think about

 

[N826AW]

Just out of curiosity, what's the washout rate at UPT?

 

[ian]

Just out of curiosity, what's the washout rate at UPT?

pretty small now

most people wash out at IFS now.

in my class of 30 we had 1 get pushed back to a later class for medical reasons and 1 guard guy that got kicked out for academics.

 

[MikeD]

pretty small now

most people wash out at IFS now.

in my class of 30 we had 1 get pushed back to a later class for medical reasons and 1 guard guy that got kicked out for academics.

Wow. In my class way back when, we started with 35 and graduated 16 (18, if you include the 2 who left for helos at Ft Rucker after Phase II).

 

[ian]

Wow. In my class way back when, we started with 35 and graduated 16 (18, if you include the 2 who left for helos at Ft Rucker after Phase II).

yeah IFS seems to be the washout program now instead of UPT....

i was wrong though, we had another guy just get kicked out of our class for getting a DUI and a guy in the class in front of me just got booted from T-1s for failing his 89 ride.

 

[frog_flyer]

I'm at IFS with a class of 93 and we've already had 2 guys quit. Both CSO selects with no flight experience. We've flown one sortie, and been here for 7 training days.

Ian, PM comin' your way re: T-1 washout guy.

 

[ian]

I'm at IFS with a class of 93 and we've already had 2 guys quit. Both CSO selects with no flight experience. We've flown one sortie, and been here for 7 training days.

Ian, PM comin' your way re: T-1 washout guy.

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