Whats your take on this?

N

N8081G

New Member
One of the students at my flight school is currently time building for his CPL. He wants to do a lot of flying in the multi to get up to the 250hrs, probably about 50-60hrs, but he doesnt have a multi-rating. So he will have a lot of multi-time but not PIC. Do you think this is a wise idea? I know the PIC multi time would really benefit him if he goes for his MEI. At this rate he is better off doing his CMEL and taking up a 152 or PA28 to knock off the single engine portion on his commercial ride.

Anyway, the real question is, do you think it's smart that he is getting a lot of multi time but no PIC time?
 
N8081G said:
One of the students at my flight school is currently time building for his CPL. He wants to do a lot of flying in the multi to get up to the 250hrs, probably about 50-60hrs, but he doesnt have a multi-rating. So he will have a lot of multi-time but not PIC. Do you think this is a wise idea? I know the PIC multi time would really benefit him if he goes for his MEI. At this rate he is better off doing his CMEL and taking up a 152 or PA28 to knock off the single engine portion on his commercial ride.

Anyway, the real question is, do you think it's smart that he is getting a lot of multi time but no PIC time?
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Might as well go for the Multi-private first then start time building. That is what I did. It takes all of five hours to prepare for it. Otherwise, it is a huge waste.
 
N8081G said:
One of the students at my flight school is currently time building for his CPL. He wants to do a lot of flying in the multi to get up to the 250hrs, probably about 50-60hrs, but he doesnt have a multi-rating.
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So he has around 190-200 multi right now? If so, I don't think paying for another 50-60 hours is worth it. IMO 250 hours will not be competitive enough for a jet or turbo prop, so why spend the money, when also IMO, he currently has enough multi time to at least get on with a 135 flying a multi piston.

Maybe i'm off, but my thinking is people are going to need at least 500 multi from this point forward to get into anything burning jet a
 
Why not spend like 10 of those hours getting him his PPL MEL so he can at least log the rest PIC? He'll still have the same amount of hours 'time built' but he'll get another rating out of it.
 
A PMEL seems to be the best thing to go for, before time building towards the CPL. Why CPL time build in a multi w/o mlti PIC time?
 
All of you have said the samething and that is exactly what i am telling him as well. His defense is that he doesn't want to pay two checkride fees for the PPL-Multi and CMEL, as well as the anxiety of two checkrides. I told him that while he will get the time regardless, the PIC time will benefit him more in the long run. He doesn't have any multi time as yet. He has around 200hrs TTand the other 50-60 he wants to get in a multi.
 
Afraid of taking a checkride because of anxiety and money? no one likes checkrides and we've all failed a few. But in this industry checkrides/fed rides/sim checks are part of the biz. Anxiety and blowing money are part of being in aviation. He's in for a tough time if he's trying to avoid taking rides because of nerves in this field.

Besides it seems like everyone is one the same page thinking this guys wasting his time and money doing it this way.
 
Funny thing is though he is not the only one doing this. I guess havin 50+ multi time without a multi-engine rating isn't unheard of?:dunno:
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I had a few foreign students time build for ME without ever getting a ME rating.
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I know when you are going for your CMEL you do have to time build in the multi, i believe you need 22hrs of multi if my memory is corrct? I also know that you do not need a PPL multi to get your CMEL but you need to satisfy the same requirements for a single engine plane in the multi e.g. 10 nights takeoffs and landings at a controlled tower airport, a 300nm cross country where the first leg has to be atleast 250nm, etc etc.
 
If I were him I would just completely blow off the multi time before commercial and get the CMEL/CSEL together and then get a MEI so he could actually get paid for his multi time.

If he wanted to build up 50 hours in multi that would cost him somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000. I honestly think that's a waste of money when you can just get paid for it in the future as an instructor.

But, if he's just overflowing with money, I'd advise him to get the PMEL and then build as PIC. That would actually be cheaper than paying for 50 hours of dual in the twin.
 
Jshutt64 said:
If I were him I would just completely blow off the multi time before commercial and get the CMEL/CSEL together and then get a MEI so he could actually get paid for his multi time.

If he wanted to build up 50 hours in multi that would cost him somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000. I honestly think that's a waste of money when you can just get paid for it in the future as an instructor.

But, if he's just overflowing with money, I'd advise him to get the PMEL and then build as PIC. That would actually be cheaper than paying for 50 hours of dual in the twin.
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His parents are financing his training and rumors has it that they are loaded. If he ever wants his MEI, he will have to get around 13.5 hrs multi pic time (he will get 1.5 from his checkride) whereas if he gets his PPL-multi now he can be omitted from doing that since he will have a lot more than 15hrs pic. Heck, he can jump into training for his MEI right away and even do it as his initial.
 
Devils Advocate here:

Is it a waste the it is not PIC in the hiring sense?
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I'd personally suggest he takes a private checkride.

Then again if he just wants to cruise around with an instructor for 50 hours, I don't see a problem with that either. There really isn't a silver bullet answer, "don't do x because you will have to do y later". Only thing will be what has been said already, he will need to build 15 hours for his MEI someday.
 
N8081G said:
I also know that you do not need a PPL multi to get your CMEL but you need to satisfy the same requirements for a single engine plane in the multi e.g. 10 nights takeoffs and landings at a controlled tower airport, a 300nm cross country where the first leg has to be atleast 250nm, etc etc.
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No, you don't have to meet the same requirements as your initial CPL. A common route to CPL M&SEL is to get a SEL CPL initial rating, then add-on a MEL CPL rating in about 10-15 hrs of dual in a twin. There's no night, no cross country, and no PIC required. All you need is enough training to successfully complete the tasks listed in the "Additional Rating Task Table" of the Comm MEL PTS under the "ASEL" column. I added on my MEL rating in about 12 hrs.
 
N8081G said:
He has around 200hrs TTand the other 50-60 he wants to get in a multi.
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It seems like a goofy way to go about it, if you ask me. The price of a checkride is about the same as 15 hrs of instruction where I work. Will this school let him rent the airplane solo or with a safety pilot if he has a ticket? If so, then he should definitely get a private rating, then build the rest of his time solo. (Or shop around for a FBO that will let you solo their twin.) I used to own a PA-34 that I had on lease-back to a flight school. My insurance company was pretty good and let me offer it for solo flight with 25 ME or 10 M&M. (There was also a TT requirement, but I don't remember what it was.)

IMHO, not wanting to take a checkride because you're afraid of busting it is ridiculous when you stand a lot to gain by taking one.
 
It sounds like something else is going on that he's not telling you. It doesn't make sense to waste all that money doing dual time to avoid "checkride fees." Probe him.
 
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