What should (or shouldnt) I do?

WhatRJ

WhatRJ

Well-Known Member
Hello fellow JC members,

Im still relatively new to the forums but I can say that in the week that I have spent going through the countless forum posts here I have received a priceless amount of knowledge about the industry and career path which I have chosen. I look forward to growing as an aviator with JC like the likes of 'kellwolf' and others I have read about. It is with that in mind that I come asking for your help and advice.

I am a junior at an aviation university and am currently enrolled in their flight program. Now before you ready your pitchforks, let me just say that my situation is not really standard and this was the best choice (or at least it was at the time). Back to the problem at hand, I am sure most of you have heard of the AP3 program being offered by XJT and similar 'pathway' programs being offered by other airlines.

My question is whether or not you guys think the risk (completing the universities jet transition program and doing the rest of my ratings here as well as banking on the airline staying in business) is worth the reward of the guaranteed job. With the ATP rule coming along, I am at a crossroads as to what the best course of action would be.

Any and all advice would be appreciated!

-RJ
 
The majority of the people I have come across at recent interviews have earned their ATP outside of the university environment.

I think you will get some more replies here if you state your hours, and your final intentions... They we can all chime in with our advise.

Best of luck to you!
 
Mark Z said:
I think you will get some more replies here if you state your hours, and your final intentions... They we can all chime in with our advise.
Best of luck to you!
Click to expand...

Thanks, I only have my PPL and IR ratings and 103 hours as of now, I graduate when I am 20 years old so that still leaves me with 3 years which I had originally planned to be a CFI for a few years(now after getting advice from a CFI, doing 135 for XC requirements might have to be thrown in after CFI :) ) .As for my final intentions, well, having an airline gig one day down the road sounds pretty appealing ;).

-RJ
 
Having three years to grown and meet ATP mins shouldn't be hard as a CFI at all. The xcountry might be hard, but pay attention to your flights and you will build most of it for sure. It isn't hard to build 700/yr as a CFI, or more if you are willing to do the work. Get your ATP completed asap, and get those applications sent out, that is my advice.

Where you decide to get your rates isn't as relevant as actually having them. If you can get them at a local FBO and save some money, and maybe make some connections with a local school or 135 company, that might even be better in my opinion.

Either way, enjoy it, and work hard, it will pay off in the end.
 
Edit: Just looked up AP3 programs. It seems that the new ATP rule really hurts these programs. Any thoughts?
 
eightballfreight said:
Explain the AP3, I am sure most guys outside of training have not heard about it.
You are in good position man, keep it up.
Click to expand...

The information form is about 6 pages in length but ill give a run down of the key points.

-Have a first class medical
-Update application on airlineapps.com at least once a semester
-Attend all campus visits by XJT representatives
-Graduate with a 2.75 cumulative GPA and 3.0 in flight courses
- Pass a bunch of XJT tests senior year (basically everything from a real interview)
- Obtain commercial, ME and instrument ratings at university (CFI,CFII,MEI at uni strongly preferred)
-Complete University's Advanced Jet Training course
-Do (or at least apply) to an internship at an airline
-Two letters of recommendation from professors
-Work as a CFI at university or another approved institution with structured flight program
-Work a minimum of 12 months or 800 dual hours as a CFI at school (I feel this is going to change soon with the new ATP rule)
-Offered class date with Expressjet once you meet 'hiring parameters'

Thats the jist of it.
 
WhatRJ said:
The information form is about 6 pages in length but ill give a run down of the key points.

-Have a first class medical
-Update application on airlineapps.com at least once a semester
-Attend all campus visits by XJT representatives
-Graduate with a 2.75 cumulative GPA and 3.0 in flight courses
- Pass a bunch of XJT tests senior year (basically everything from a real interview)
- Obtain commercial, ME and instrument ratings at university (CFI,CFII,MEI at uni strongly preferred)
-Complete University's Advanced Jet Training course
-Do (or at least apply) to an internship at an airline
-Two letters of recommendation from professors
-Work as a CFI at university or another approved institution with structured flight program
-Work a minimum of 12 months or 800 dual hours as a CFI at school (I feel this is going to change soon with the new ATP rule)
-Offered class date with Expressjet once you meet 'hiring parameters'

Thats the jist of it.
Click to expand...
Thanks, you know these are good thing to be motivated to do and not to discourage from having a good gpa (2.75 is a joke anyway), but expressjet is having a though time today finding qualified applicants today. There is not a glut of pilots in the pipeline and they cannot reduce mins, so in a couple of years when you reach the mins getting an interview should not be a problem and a job offer should be pretty easy as long as you don't have a personality like Brick tamland. Barring another financial collapse, I wouldn't feel beholden to go THIS route. In fact my own opinion is to spend the least amount of money possible, but that is me and I too went to a univ and don't regret it.
I don't think they get a waiver to hire you below ATP mins anyway though that rumor was floating around.
 
First of all, there is NO (never, ever not even a little bit) guaranteed job ANYWHERE. So, with that said, that seems like a hell of a lot of hoops to jump through just to be given a verbal (written) promise of a job some day.

Secondly, in three years time the regionals are going to be hurting for pilots pretty badly. As long as you have the time (remember, you don't actually need an ATP, just the time for one and the company should give you your ATP when they train you) it shouldn't be too difficult to get hired on somewhere. As good as a company as ExpressJet is, as far as regionals go, you may not want to limit yourself to just them.

Finish up school. Get your CFI ratings. Find some place to instruct. Go fly VFR 135 (helps with the XC requirements). Have some fun and then, as you approach 23 and 1500, start shotgunning your resuming.
 
I would be a bit concerned. Before the new rule, it was "get your commercial ticket and we might have a seat for you". After the new rule, it will be "get your commercial AND then get your Restricted ATP and we might have a seat for you". Before the new rule, they could take a closer look before they spent money for a type-rating. After the new rule?
 
Thanks alot for the responses, half of my friends already jumped the gun and signed on the second they heard about the delta interview... Im seeing now that nothing in this industry is certain.
 
I'd focus on getting an internship at a place like Delta, United, FEDEX, Alaska, etc. instead if going through that program.
 
Yeah, my AA internship has helped me tremendously in my career. ;)

My advice...build time and do something to make yourself stand out, along with networking. Do not put all your eggs in any one basket. You never know where you'll end up.
 
Also, I am sure Riddle is different being in FL or AZ, but my friends that taught at UND or WMU barely flew. Not nearly enough to reach 1500 in 3 years ( summer was bad too) . Find a busy flight school else where IMO
 
WhatRJ said:
Thanks alot for the responses, half of my friends already jumped the gun and signed on the second they heard about the delta interview... Im seeing now that nothing in this industry is certain.
Click to expand...
Other airlines have the a guaranteed interview with Delta also.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Also, I am sure Riddle is different being in FL or AZ, but my friends that taught at UND or WMU barely flew. Not nearly enough to reach 1500 in 3 years ( summer was bad too) . Find a busy flight school else where IMO
Click to expand...
Yep, 667 dual given in 2.5 years at UND. Pretty much guaranteed not very much flying between November and March if it's one of "those years".

Another problem, when I was there, was that the fleet wasn't big enough for the rapid growth of the AirChina program. You HAD to keep yourself scheduled 7 days out(planes and sims) or you couldn't get anything. The problem was if bad weather messed up one day, that particular student wouldn't be able to do anything for 2-3 days, if you were at a point in the TCO with sims and flights mixed together. There was a very limited number of times you could go out of order on the lessons as well.

Those two factors lead to a pretty dismal first couple years being paid to fly for my friends and I. Summer was usually alright, but I didn't usually cancel for convective activity unless it was going to hit Grand Forks, in which case, UND grounded you for you. :)
 
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