What is wrong with my Lazy 8?!

N961EA

N961EA

Well-Known Member
Hey guys,

My chief instructor told me that my lazy 8s suck. I am meeting with him on Monday to discuss the proper teaching technique, but I want to get the forum's opinion as well.
I recorded the 1st half on FSX for your critique (second half is basically the same in opposite direction). Could you please help me understand what's wrong? I thought I was following the FAA AFH Ch9 to the T!



Thanks.
 
NickH said:
Max bank too late in the turn. Caused by too little initial pitch and too much airspeed at apex.
Click to expand...

Thanks. AFH says max bank of @30 degrees should be reached at the 90-degree point. Isn't that what I'm doing?
So basically just increase my max pitch? (to be reached at the 45-degree point)
 
N961EA said:
Thanks. AFH says max bank of @30 degrees should be reached at the 90-degree point. Isn't that what I'm doing?
So basically just increase my max pitch? (to be reached at the 45-degree point)
Click to expand...

Max bank should be at the 90 degree point as the nose falls through the horizon. You're holding that bank through most of the second half of the turn, because you need the plane to turn more. This is happening because your airspeed is too high at the 90 degree point. That interrelation of speed, pitch and turn rate, and your ability to control it is what you are demonstrating with a Lazy 8. It looks like you're just trying to fly a path in the sky.
 
USMCmech said:
One thing that will sometimes help a student master lazy 8s is to demonstrate crazy 8s (same manuver but 60deg bank).
Click to expand...

Yup. Did my commercial with an oldtimer, so we did those for the giggles as well as max power to idle to max power to idle Lazy 8. Good fun too
 
Actually that's a really good idea. It is a great demonstration of what's supposed to happen with a lazy8, as the effect of the airspeed loss is much more emphasized.
 
Think less numbers. The lazy 8 is called a lazy 8 because the plane can basically do it on its own without much effort by the pilot. What does the instructor mean when he says your lazy 8s suck? What specially sucked about your lazy 8?
 
Jordan93 said:
What does the instructor mean when he says your lazy 8s suck? What specially sucked about your lazy 8?
Click to expand...
He said the vertical plane projection doesn't look like a figure 8 about the horizon, and that some control inputs are constant for more than a second. I think I'm having a hard time in the part of the 8 below the horizon...can't get it to turn fast enough and therefore I'm stuck at high bank...
 
I used to talk students through it with a cadence.

Set power
Pitch
Pitch
Bank
Pitch
Pitch
Bank
Let the nose knife down through the peak/top of the turn as you reach max bank
Unbank
Unpitch
Unpitch
Unbank
Unpitch
Unpitch
Unbank to roll out opposite heading, on altitude

Repeat in other turn direction.

If you do it right the plane almost does the maneuver smoothly for you.
 
Looks like you're not bleeding off enough airspeed at the first 45. I would think less numbers. Going to mess with your head. Get the feel for it and if you mess it up, explain what happened...."Too much bank, too much airspeed, pitched too high too fast" etc etc. That's what I did and worked pretty well.

Make sure to make it nice slow and lazy
 
Ok, two things.
Forget all those points and degrees on a compass. Pick one prominent thing and put it on the wing tip in the direction you want to go. You'll be flipping it from one wing tip to the other until someone pukes.

Now, install a laser beam in the spinner and project a perfect beam out the front of the aircraft. Take that beam and draw a perfect half circle above the horizon followed immediately by a perfect half circle below the horizon. That NSA listening station on top of the mountain will now be on the other wing.

Don't stop. Do it again.

@killbilly develops a spreadsheet and a checklist to decide what toilet paper to buy. If these points can get him to stop over thinking it, it can work for anybody.

I also like the cadence @Beefy McGee suggests, as long as you can sing while drawing half circles with laser beams.
 
N961EA said:
He said the vertical plane projection doesn't look like a figure 8 about the horizon, and that some control inputs are constant for more than a second. I think I'm having a hard time in the part of the 8 below the horizon...can't get it to turn fast enough and therefore I'm stuck at high bank...
Click to expand...
Horrible, horrible answer.

I teach lazy-8s by starting with wingovers. Because it's literally that. It's so much easier to teach a wingover and then slow it down than it is to painfully creep through a billion crappy ones. You need to know how the maneuver is supposed to look... and most importantly, how it's supposed to feel, just like @USMCmech said above.

-Fox
 
Had same problem, found the answer in a King video. Try it with a little bit less power. Ex - in the Arrow the recommended setting was 20" power and 19" was perfect(make believe numbers...)
 
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