What is with all this?

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lovetofly

New Member
I am interested in attending Pan AM. I had done much research into the school and was happy with everything I discovered, that was until I ran across this site. I understand that in any venture of significance some will end up disenfranchised. However, what I have been reading on Jetcarees is, at best, unsettling. Pan Am could not possibly be as bad as the handful of posters have stated, could it? If at all possible I would like to hear from some current or resent graduates with good experiences. I posted hear not necessarily to be convinced one way or the other; just to get some new blood in a conversation that seems to have been lasting too long with only the same people involved. So lets see if we can conduct our selves like educated adults with constructive, current, none emotionally charged responses. So NEW FOLKS lets register LOG IN and have a voice in this
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I will let the others go on about PanAm as I think everything that needs to be said has already been said somewhere on this board.
All I will say is that all of the negative talk on PanAm's post should speak for itself. If you have not visited or researched FlightSafety, then you owe it to yourself to at least do that before you make a decision. Many PanAm'ers and people from other flight schools have left their training (and yes paid the $2000 that PanAm charges for withdrawing) and finished up at FlightSafety. Some have even changed their mind and gone there as a result of reading this board and are glad they did. Look at flightsafety's Post, you will not find the school bashing or negativity as you will on Pan Am's or even Comair's posting (DCA).
 
I know, I know... I am not a new guy. My advice is to do your due diligence. Go and visit the schools you are interested in. You will be able to tell which one will "fit" you best. PLEASE don't rely on these forums to make your decision. My decision came down to FSI or Pan Am. Pan Am had a campus in AZ, which was much more convenient, so here I am. My expericence has been nothing like what some of the "disgruntled" few may have experienced. I am quite happy w/ my time at Pan Am. I have been here 9 months, by the way, and started w/ zero time.

All done... Good luck w/ your decision!!
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lovetofly,
here is a previous post of mine so you can see why there is alot of animosity towards PanAm.

"Select an Academy that will launch your career faster and with a greater degree of assurance than anywhere else" Last time i checked you still have to be an instructor to get to the airlines if you go Pan Am, you can still get as many hours instucting at an FBO as Pan Am. So it doesnt speed it up any.

"Select an Academy that continually has graduates hired by a wide variety of airlines - a proven track record of sucess" actually they hired your grads cause they reached the magic numbers of 1500TT. Every other academy can claim this anyway.

"Select an Academy that provides training for captains and first officers of over 200 airlines." BULLSH*T, they are a completly different organization than the flight school and no the airline captains dont go to FPR or DVT to get their reccurent. Separate organization people!

"Select an Academy that utilizes an all new, well-equiped aircraft fleet to minimize training delays" So what, you think leather seats, new avionics, and a spiffy paint job are gonna teach you to fly any better. And dont give me the "maintence" excuse either I have never flown a plane younger then me and I never had a problem.

"Select an Academy that follows a cirriculum that was developed in cooperation with the airlines and incorporates airline procedures." Last time i checked they were called the F.A.Rs! every flight school in the country uses them. By the way why the hell pay for all this "airline training" when you get if for free in ground school as a new hire. Hell i got a some beachfront property in Scottsdale if you need some!

"Select an Academy whose program is continually reviewed by an Airline Advisory Committe and updated to address the current industry demands" Holy Sh^t! I better drop $80,000 right now cause it sounds like no other school out there has a clue what the ailines are looking for, does 1500TT and 500ME ring a bell?

if you want to be owned by KeyBank for the next 20 years at least go to FlightSafety.

Then again the FBO route never hurt anyone.
 
Hey Montana... I just thought of an interesting experiment. If you have the time, have you ever considered calling the recruiting department, and asking about some of the stuff you have a beef with. Seriously, no flaming here. I am very curious what they would say. Obviously you could do it from the "interested in enrolling" point of view, so you could keep from butting heads. You know.. honey vs. vinegar and what not...
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Here is why I ask... I could attempt to refute what you have said, but that isn't going to get anyone any closer to "closure". Do you agree?? So maybe if we can get the "horse" to answer, and you can agree to post exactly what you find out, then we can all get along. How about it??

I would ask...

1. What are the average number of hours an instructor is currently logging? You could even ask about a new instructor vs. a stage check pilot. It is going to be a wide range from someone that is just starting out as a CFI, to someone that has been at it for awhile.

2. What are were the average hours of the instructors that have moved on to the airlines?

3. What is the relationship of SimCom to Pan Am? Are the two connected, or two totally different entities?

4. What exactly is this Airline Advisory Committee, and what airlines are on it? How does that committee influence what happens at Pan Am?

5. Exactly how are airline training procedures incorporated in the the everyday training at Pan Am?

Obviously you could add any other questions, but I think that would at least cover the issues in the last post.

Anyway, I would be genuinely interested in what the school has to say. So if you are open to doing a little leg work, that would be awesome. Here is the number...800-272-0211. The only recruiter that I know is John Mulville, at Deer Valley in Phoenix. I think he is a pretty straight shooter, so I can't imagine him blowing any smoke. So that is who I would ask for.

I suppose I could open this up to anyone that is interested, but I thought you would be a good person to give it a shot. What do you think?? If not, not it is no big deal...
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LC
 
Love to fly,

Let me respond as honestly and accuratley as I can. I enrolled at Pan Am last september, and was in the exact same shoes you are in now. After signing my agreement, and then discovering these web boards i had serious doubts. I have been reading this board for over one year, before deciding to speak out. I ultimately decided that I had been researching flight schools for over three years, and this is were I wanted to be, and stuck with my decision to attend.

Let me try to give you the facts, straight forward, as Bill Oreily would say, "the spin stops here"

1. Is Pan Am perfect, absolutely not. There have been days I have left that place so mad, I could not see straight; but I dealt with it, moved on, and realized that no place is perfect, and to think there is some utopian flight training environment, is a joke! My overall experience has been very positive.

2. I will have completed an IR rating, 20 hours crm, pplme, 80hrs multi-time building, comm asel, amel, 80hrs jet systems, 20hrs ftd crj 200, cfi, cfii, mei, in under one year. Am I saying that one could not accomplish that somewhere else, no, but the fact is that is a lot of stuff under my belt in one years time, and all of it was quality intruction. Those are the facts.

3. $80,000-$100,000 to attend Pan Am. Give me a break. I had my private done, borrowed $55,000, and kept it on budget through hard work. If you spend every night in the bar, and don't take it seriously, then yes you could spend an unreal amount of money, but if you take it seriously than some of the numbers you see on this board are just not true.

4. False advertising. Does Pan Am take $2000 if you break your contract, yes. So what!!. Is this some big secret? NO. Does an apartment charge you if you break a lease? Enough said. Do the a/c have air conditioning? Yes. Do they break? Yes. Who cares. When they get around to fixing them they will, in the mean time I have had a lot more things to do with my time than wonder if Pan Am is ripping me off because the air is broke. The conversation on this board about air is sickning. Grow up!

5. The past year has been rough, no denying that. At dvt, the wait time for instructors rose as high as 3 to 4 months. But, how many places can you go, complete a program, and if you have at least 2 brian cells you will get hired. The point is, if you can take the good with the bad, you will get your airline job, maybe not as quick as you would like but you will get it. I have no problem with FBO training, I got my private at a wonderful FBO, but this is a fact, and that's what i am writing about: An academy like Pan Am will have many more connections with airlines, and you will make many more personal contacts than you would at an FBO on your own. Last time i checked Mesaba Airlines dosen't go to Joe's FBO to hire. Even during the bad times, most people are gone in under 3 years, and I don't think you could count on that with FBO training, although it can be done, for someone like myself with no contacts in aviation, it would not have been probable.

6. There has been recovery since the start of 2004. We have record enrollment already for this fall, and with the reduction in minimums, I believe the school will start operating in a manner that it was designed to run in. The last group of intructors only have a 2-3 week wait before there first students, and that's pretty darn good, and nobody can argue with that, becuase you got it, those are facts.

7. If you are interested in knowing what some of the issues I have had, PM and I will be honest with you. That's all I wanted. I just wanted someone to be honest with me, and I actually wanted to hear about some of the bad stuff because I know no place is perfect, but let's do it one on one in a professional manner. And oh by the way, the Pan Am bashing that I read that almost changed my mind a year ago September, was written mainly by the same people writing today! Pretty impresive guys!!

8. THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

Good luck in whatever choice you make, I hope this helps, and I would love to help you in any other way I can.
 
Record enrollment? Do you happen to know what those approximate figures are?
 
I am not positive, but i believe 30 are set for the august class. the info center at dvt just reported record enrollment for the fall which i think includes august september and october. i know intructors were told to be ready in 2-3 weeks for the class in july, and it was only getting busier from there on out. if i get some exact number i will let you know
 
Over here in FPR there are also about 30 for the August/end of July class. From what I hear, about 14 South Koreans, and the rest regular FAA.
 
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