What is the best Flight School in the Phoenix area???

NewbieAirlinePilot

NewbieAirlinePilot

New Member
Since all you Westwind haters out here have been talking so much trash about Westwind, I would like to hear what your alternatives are for flight training in the PHOENIX area, so yea that does not mean you can vote for FSI (for the FSI guy out the that has a little trouble with directions). Of course, take into consideration cost, quality, time to complete, CFI job, hiring with an airline (or other company).
 
Are you going back to school Jim? I don't know which one I would go to since I haven't visited them but I do know what two I would avoid. Worstwind and Pan Scam. I probably would avoid all of the academy type schools because they are way too expensive and sell you a bunch of crap such as Loft program, right seat transition and all the other crap. I would try and find a Instructor who isn't a 500 hour time builder who does it because he enjoys teaching. I think Glendale aviation is an option and would get my ratings up to CFI then proceed to go work for one of the european flight schools in the valley. We all know that where you get your ratings doesn't matter and the crap westwind sells about having connections is garbage because anyone with the mins can submit resume to Mesa and get an interview. Don't need the middle man. By the way Westwinds Job placement board is crap as they said they placed me at my job after there when they didn't even know I was leaving until I put in my two weeks.
 
Chopshop said:
Are you going back to school Jim? I don't know which one I would go to since I haven't visited them but I do know what two I would avoid. Worstwind and Pan Scam. I probably would avoid all of the academy type schools because they are way too expensive and sell you a bunch of crap such as Loft program, right seat transition and all the other crap. I would try and find a Instructor who isn't a 500 hour time builder who does it because he enjoys teaching. I think Glendale aviation is an option and would get my ratings up to CFI then proceed to go work for one of the european flight schools in the valley. We all know that where you get your ratings doesn't matter and the crap westwind sells about having connections is garbage because anyone with the mins can submit resume to Mesa and get an interview. Don't need the middle man. By the way Westwinds Job placement board is crap as they said they placed me at my job after there when they didn't even know I was leaving until I put in my two weeks.
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Here an idea, since you don't like the LOFT programs, just do your training at Westwind, skip the loft, move right to CFI program, and then go teach somewhere else. At least that way you get quality training, a decent price (not the cheapest). It hard to find these days instructors who stick around for more than 500 hours before moving on, so you will find that at more schools. You can hire one for private lessons but that can get expensive too and down time becomes an issue. As we've discussed 100 x's before in these forums, where you get your ratings doesn't matter, however it DOES show if you went to a good school that made you go above and beyond FAA mins, or you just got by.

You just keep thinking I'm Jim, anytime you want to meet just say the word, you'll see I'm not Jim.:yeahthat:
 
NewbieAirlinePilot said:
Here an idea, since you don't like the LOFT programs, just do your training at Westwind, skip the loft, move right to CFI program, and then go teach somewhere else. At least that way you get quality training, a decent price (not the cheapest). It hard to find these days instructors who stick around for more than 500 hours before moving on, so you will find that at more schools.
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Again I will explain since you have trouble hearing. It's also deflecting from your original question but Westwind is way way way too expensive for what you get out of it. The quality you talk about is hit or miss depending on the instructor you are assigned and with the way the industry is now your instructor probably isn't going to have more than 200 hrs dual given. Why would I go to westwind up to my CFI when there are schools around paying for your CFI then paying you a good wage and giving you all the instruction you want with weekends off? Keep pimping westwind all I state is the crap that westwind will pull on students. Word is getting out and that is why attendence is down for professional students.
 
Chopshop said:
Again I will explain since you have trouble hearing. It's also deflecting from your original question but Westwind is way way way too expensive for what you get out of it. The quality you talk about is hit or miss depending on the instructor you are assigned and with the way the industry is now your instructor probably isn't going to have more than 200 hrs dual given. Why would I go to westwind up to my CFI when there are schools around paying for your CFI then paying you a good wage and giving you all the instruction you want with weekends off? Keep pimping westwind all I state is the crap that westwind will pull on students. Word is getting out and that is why attendence is down for professional students.
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Name a flight school in the area that has most flight instructors with more than 200 hours... just name one

Name me a flight school that will PAY for you to get your CFI's... just name it... I will be there in a flash on their bandwagon...

You know attendence is down or not, you still go there, work there? You know alot about them for not be a student/CFI
 
NewbieAirlinePilot said:
Name a flight school in the area that has most flight instructors with more than 200 hours... just name one

Name me a flight school that will PAY for you to get your CFI's... just name it... I will be there in a flash on their bandwagon...

You know attendence is down or not, you still go there, work there? You know alot about them for not be a student/CFI
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SATC, you think I would just make that crap up? Basically I'm done arguing with you as you are management at worstwind. I work with some exwestwinders, I was there for 3 years all together so know quite a few people who came and went, still know people who work there. I have been over this with you time and time again but you aren't smart enough to let it sink in. Still waiting for you to tell me what I have said that was false. Any prospective students take note of this I have asked him multiple times to for him to QUOTE what I said was false since is is all in typing and he just gives the excuse he doesn't have 5 minutes to pull up about 20 posts since it was months ago. Bottomline is I know Westwind a lot better than you and have proved it multiple times. You even contradict yourself about the quality training and then say that westwinds instructors aren't that experienced? Not sure which one you will stand by now but I do know at 500 TT you are still a very green instructor. I'm done arguing with you, I never posted here til I read the crap and all the screaming you had to do about worstwind so take that for what it is worth. I'm not alone and there are a lot of us who aren't happy with how westwind was too us, and it didn't have to do with our smarts or work ethic. We are all at airlines progressing our career even though for some reason this whole time you assumed I was a student/instructor. Just because I said I have over 2000 dual given doesn't mean I'm still a full time instructor. I post here to help warn students of the stunts the school pulls and to not buy the koolaid that they sell. Any students who want to contact me can feel free and I can point them to over 30 ex westwinder's for a reference and they could get every positive and negative and there will be a lot more negative. I'm not only against worstwind but pan am and other so called academies.
 
Chopshop said:
SATC, you think I would just make that crap up? Basically I'm done arguing with you as you are management at worstwind. I work with some exwestwinders, I was there for 3 years all together so know quite a few people who came and went, still know people who work there. I have been over this with you time and time again but you aren't smart enough to let it sink in. Still waiting for you to tell me what I have said that was false. Any prospective students take note of this I have asked him multiple times to for him to QUOTE what I said was false since is is all in typing and he just gives the excuse he doesn't have 5 minutes to pull up about 20 posts since it was months ago. Bottomline is I know Westwind a lot better than you and have proved it multiple times. You even contradict yourself about the quality training and then say that westwinds instructors aren't that experienced? Not sure which one you will stand by now but I do know at 500 TT you are still a very green instructor. I'm done arguing with you, I never posted here til I read the crap and all the screaming you had to do about worstwind so take that for what it is worth. I'm not alone and there are a lot of us who aren't happy with how westwind was too us, and it didn't have to do with our smarts or work ethic. We are all at airlines progressing our career even though for some reason this whole time you assumed I was a student/instructor. Just because I said I have over 2000 dual given doesn't mean I'm still a full time instructor. I post here to help warn students of the stunts the school pulls and to not buy the koolaid that they sell. Any students who want to contact me can feel free and I can point them to over 30 ex westwinder's for a reference and they could get every positive and negative and there will be a lot more negative. I'm not only against worstwind but pan am and other so called academies.
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What the heck is SATC??? Never heard of them before, maybe you could provide a website link showing this free CFI rating you speak of...

Where do you work again? Who do you fly for? What type of flying do you do now?

I am pointing out to you right now what I think you are saying is false....

I haven't contridicted myself about Westwind instructors. I have just stated that most of them don't hang around a long time... why??? because they are so much in demand right now and can achieve their dream flight job much quicker. Why would you hang around when you and I both know that senority means everything in the airline businuess.

Yes I do agree that a 500 tt instructor is very green, however regionals are hiring them at 800/700/even 600 total hours. So that's not going to help keeping instructors around...

Done arguing with me? It's because I'm pointing out all your BS comments and you can't defend them.

Once again, who do you work for, what type of flying? And why did it take you till 2000 dual hours to get a real flying job?

Sounds like you are just bitter about the flight training industry because they took your money and your not at the job you expected you would be at.
 
In all honesty, newbie, all you have done is deflect and deny all of the negative experiences posted about Westwind... I have written several pages of accurate, objective information based on my time at WW as a student AND instructor; all you have been able to say is how great it was, and have been unable to comment on anything else. It very much seems like you have much more of a vested interest in Westwind than just a former student trying to protect his "alma mater"

I think that any prospective students should look at newbie's posts with a grain of salt, for his interests in Westwind are much greater than he has led us to believe.
 
NewbieAirlinePilot said:
What the heck is SATC??? Never heard of them before, maybe you could provide a website link showing this free CFI rating you speak of...

Where do you work again? Who do you fly for? What type of flying do you do now?

I am pointing out to you right now what I think you are saying is false....

I haven't contridicted myself about Westwind instructors. I have just stated that most of them don't hang around a long time... why??? because they are so much in demand right now and can achieve their dream flight job much quicker. Why would you hang around when you and I both know that senority means everything in the airline businuess.

Yes I do agree that a 500 tt instructor is very green, however regionals are hiring them at 800/700/even 600 total hours. So that's not going to help keeping instructors around...

Done arguing with me? It's because I'm pointing out all your BS comments and you can't defend them.

Once again, who do you work for, what type of flying? And why did it take you till 2000 dual hours to get a real flying job?

Sounds like you are just bitter about the flight training industry because they took your money and your not at the job you expected you would be at.
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Okay I bought a house so I can pay my stupid expensive loan off. I am 26 with no help from parents and bought a place can you say the same? Can't pay a mortgage on regional first year. I currently fly for the only 121 regional I wanted to work for. Sabena out of mesa arizona will pay for CFI if you call and give them a couple years due to the industry, worked there for awhile and am very good friend with owner and talk to him quite abit. I'm not bitter because I'm in a better spot than most people my age and especially in this business. I just realize Westwind is a ripoff for the price especially since you DON'T GET A DEGREE. It's an FBO with fancy uniforms and a bunch of Koolaid. You still have failed to prove me wrong and anyone reading can tell what a tool you are starting with your handle. You act like Westwind has all these connections with the regionals when in fact all that happens is the instructors are going to MESA. Now who do you work for NEWBIE JIM PITTMAN.
 
ChinookDriver said:
Yeah... I didn't have a horse in this race till right there.

That's all I need to know about you, dude.
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All I'm saying is that if you want a regional job, why would you wait until 2000 hours to apply? This day and age, you only need 800 to 1000 hours at most to get a job at pretty much any regional you want. So if you really wanted a regional job, you must be a idiot to keep insturcting until 2000 hours to get a job.
 
Chopshop said:
Okay I bought a house so I can pay my stupid expensive loan off. I am 26 with no help from parents and bought a place can you say the same? Can't pay a mortgage on regional first year. I currently fly for the only 121 regional I wanted to work for. Sabena out of mesa arizona will pay for CFI if you call and give them a couple years due to the industry, worked there for awhile and am very good friend with owner and talk to him quite abit. I'm not bitter because I'm in a better spot than most people my age and especially in this business. I just realize Westwind is a ripoff for the price especially since you DON'T GET A DEGREE. It's an FBO with fancy uniforms and a bunch of Koolaid. You still have failed to prove me wrong and anyone reading can tell what a tool you are starting with your handle. You act like Westwind has all these connections with the regionals when in fact all that happens is the instructors are going to MESA. Now who do you work for NEWBIE JIM PITTMAN.
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I have bought 2 houses to try to pay off the loans and it still wont be enough with this 121 job I'm at, but I knew that before getting into the industry.

I don't think I would want to sign a contract to work for Sabena for a few years just to save 15K on a CFI license.

Im not saying Westwind is the best school ever, however you are taking the "I didn't know" approach. You are old enough to know when you are getting BS'ed. If you go there, feel you are getting ripped off, then leave. I didn't ever feel that while I was there, I always had good instructors (and if you don't, just ask for a change).

Did you not know you didn't get a degree from Westwind before signing up?

Look at their hiring page, doesn't look like that many instructors are going to mesa. You can go where you want. Mesa is somewhere if people want to leave early, they can.

I work for a regional flying EMB 145's.
 
NewbieAirlinePilot said:
All I'm saying is that if you want a regional job, why would you wait until 2000 hours to apply? This day and age, you only need 800 to 1000 hours at most to get a job at pretty much any regional you want. So if you really wanted a regional job, you must be a idiot to keep insturcting until 2000 hours to get a job.
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No, that wasn't "all you were saying."

You implied CFI-ing wasn't a real flying job.

Maybe someone really likes being a CFI and instructed until they felt like moving along.

Maybe they didn't want to be a 600 hour wonder.

Maybe they had a wide range of other reasons.

Maybe you assumed to much?
 
NewbieAirlinePilot said:
I have bought 2 houses to try to pay off the loans and it still wont be enough with this 121 job I'm at, but I knew that before getting into the industry.

I don't think I would want to sign a contract to work for Sabena for a few years just to save 15K on a CFI license.

Im not saying Westwind is the best school ever, however you are taking the "I didn't know" approach. You are old enough to know when you are getting BS'ed. If you go there, feel you are getting ripped off, then leave. I didn't ever feel that while I was there, I always had good instructors (and if you don't, just ask for a change).

Did you not know you didn't get a degree from Westwind before signing up?

Look at their hiring page, doesn't look like that many instructors are going to mesa. You can go where you want. Mesa is somewhere if people want to leave early, they can.

I work for a regional flying EMB 145's.
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Newbie you are a tool and your personality has really shown in this thread. I guess you can expect that from a guy with a handle like yours. Again this isn't a pissing match between us and I don't argue with you that you didn't enjoy your time at DVT. Bottomline is I have posted lots of experience and facts and you put words in my mouth and say I'm pulling the I didn't know card which is false. I'm just saying for the price I paid vs quoted wasn't close and I should of just went to riddle for the cost. I was quoted 40K which is complete crap and have pointed out all the garbage. I went when no one was hiring and you had to instruct for awhile. You are a complete tool to call me out about my hours and I never question people why they did something. You are especially hipocritical when you are the chief and have never flown for an airline Jim. You keep deflecting from the original thread title and turn it to an attack thread to take the heat from the crap worstwind pulls. Proof is that westwind is a sinking ship and their downsizing and sending 10 planes to florida is proof business isn't doing well.

Fact is you are high up at the school and that should be considered by students reading this.
 
ChinookDriver said:
No, that wasn't "all you were saying."

You implied CFI-ing wasn't a real flying job.

Maybe someone really likes being a CFI and instructed until they felt like moving along.

Maybe they didn't want to be a 600 hour wonder.

Maybe they had a wide range of other reasons.

Maybe you assumed to much?
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If you want a 121 job and have the required mins, why would you want to stay as an instrutor? Maybe you enjoy it, fine, thats great, no problems with that. However you don't really want a 121 job then, do you? Thats all my point was. The question I asked "And why did it take you till 2000 dual hours to get a real flying job?" CFI to me is a stepping stone to where I wanted to be, so to me it wasn't a real flying job, I just considered it more training. Once you get hired with an airline/ or other company, now your job is to fly, not teach.

There are a wide range of reasons to continue to instructor, and thats why I asked why? The only thing I didn't assume was to him a real flying job might be instructing.
 
Chopshop said:
Fact is you are high up at the school and that should be considered by students reading this.
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You think if I worked at the school I would be talking trash about how dumb your statements are? You think if I were Jim I would even care about this thread? You think a good mormon would really do that?

Let's try to keep this thread on topic anyway, all I asked was what is the best flight school in Phoenix, not the worst!
 
Chopshop said:
Newbie you are a tool...

Again this isn't a pissing match...
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Contradictions abound...

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