What is PBS?

[MusketeerMan]

What airline have you worked at that has PBS? We have it and it works fine for us.

He hasn't worked at any airline other than ASA, though he knows more than most at the majors.

Take what he says with a very big grain of salt...

 

[surreal1221]

What airline have you worked at that has PBS? We have it and it works fine for us.

None, yet.

Thankfully.

Perhaps we need to decert ALPA so we can bring the Teamsters on board so that'll bring us the savior of PBS as well right? (if you didn't notice: )

I'm glad you guys like it and it works well at your respective carriers, but some of us see it as a specific tool to get rid of man power, and in this economy, in an effort to minimize the number of our fellow pilots hitting the street, PBS is a horrible idea for us and will be until we can actually have sufficient oversight to protect jobs and QOL, unlike the motives of our respective management teams.

So - once again - congrats on you liking it, and it working well at your company.

He hasn't worked at any airline other than ASA, though he knows more than most at the majors.

Take what he says with a very big grain of salt...

Telling me about holier than thou? Give me a break.

Once again, I'm glad you boys over at RAH enjoy your little system. Great, continue to enjoy it.

On the other side of that coin though is MY company, and MY concerns about people being put out of a job by PBS's implementation at MY company.

If I had any faith that PBS would be utilized in a very similar manner as that over at Delta I wouldn't be complaining but I do not trust my management team to provide us - the pilots - with such abilities.

I'm sorry my opinions are taboo and not in agreement with yours MusketeerMan. Deal with it, because thankfully. . .I take what you say with a huge brick of sea salt.

 

[Cptnchia]

I'm glad you guys like it and it works well at your respective carriers, but some of us see it as a specific tool to get rid of man power, and in this economy, in an effort to minimize the number of our fellow pilots hitting the street, PBS is a horrible idea for us and will be until we can actually have sufficient oversight to protect jobs and QOL, unlike the motives of our respective management teams.



On the other side of that coin though is MY company, and MY concerns about people being put out of a job by PBS's implementation at MY company.

If I had any faith that PBS would be utilized in a very similar manner as that over at Delta I wouldn't be complaining but I do not trust my management team to provide us - the pilots - with such abilities.

I'm sorry my opinions are taboo and not in agreement with yours MusketeerMan. Deal with it, because thankfully. . .I take what you say with a huge brick of sea salt.

While you certainly have legitimate concerns as to ASA would and could implement PBS, to say that it sucks for all carriers is a bit of a reach, don't you think?

 

[surreal1221]

Now, just to be perfectly clear. . .

Did I say it sucks for all carriers anywhere? I don't even think I said it sucked.

It's a way for a company to screw it's pilot group.

I'm not so naive to think that a company who has control over the software is seeking to improve their pilot groups' quality of life, rather they are using the software to improve the company's bottom line. Ultimately, to reduce the required number of flight crew members to achieve the mission.

While I didn't say it sucked. . .but if sending people out to the street doesn't suck, what does?

 

[higney85]

So I shouldn't be playing with points? Just do "auto-bid"? Also, when I do finally (if ever) achieve FO seniority high enough to have trips, how can I get high credit lines the easiest (75+), without being "inefficient" or losing days off.

How many days off should a guy with 1 year expect? 10 is what I'd assume.

If you ask the senior folks or either of the guys on the prefbid team you will find that the low/med/high works better than points only for simplicity. Every preference is registered different so low/med/high makes your preferences sit easier than trying to figure out how many points each preference turns out to overall.

You easiest bet on credit is NOT to use desire credit but to use the preference of desire LINE CREDIT. You will get to choose an hour part. Ex. High- Desire line credit value >85 hours. This will only be "graded" once so it won't destroy your bid like desire credit which grades each hour and will wash out the rest of your prefs. Some months everyone gets 90 hour lines, where other months 75 seems to be the theme. If you want days off and are not looking for credit you could use Desire credit =75, AVOID work, and Desire days off. Thats 3 prefs that would get you the most days off and only 75 hours. When you are on the bottom of the list you are getting scraps so you can't be picky.... especially on reserve.. right kell?

Days off after 1 year? depends. I am thinking you are ATL based by context so if you are junior you are going to be on rsv for quite a while. Other folks went over once the schedules improved and the new payrates came out so its a rather diverse group with the senior FO's being very senior and the reserves being very junior. With things stagnant the only way you will get more days off is to not be picky on what days those are. I would trade a 10 day off hard line to a 10 day off reserve line any day, even if it meant not getting off the exact days you wanted b/c you can always trade trips with open time or other FO's. Thinking you can get a 90 hour, 18 day off line with weekends will not be realistic until you are in the top 25% of your bid list. With things stagnant the "year ago" projection technique goes out the window. Sorry.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

If you ask the senior folks or either of the guys on the prefbid team you will find that the low/med/high works better than points only for simplicity. Every preference is registered different so low/med/high makes your preferences sit easier than trying to figure out how many points each preference turns out to overall.

I think I'll change back to low/med/high then.... sounds way simpler. I've been going crazy trying to assign points to everything

You easiest bet on credit is NOT to use desire credit but to use the preference of desire LINE CREDIT. You will get to choose an hour part. Ex. High- Desire line credit value >85 hours. This will only be "graded" once so it won't destroy your bid like desire credit which grades each hour and will wash out the rest of your prefs. Some months everyone gets 90 hour lines, where other months 75 seems to be the theme. If you want days off and are not looking for credit you could use Desire credit =75, AVOID work, and Desire days off. Thats 3 prefs that would get you the most days off and only 75 hours. When you are on the bottom of the list you are getting scraps so you can't be picky.... especially on reserve.. right kell?

Yeah I agree about being picky! It'd be nice to know what I can do once I get to the right "place" in line though, so I definitely appreciate your feedback. (Currently sitting between 1120 and 30)

Days off after 1 year? depends. I am thinking you are ATL based by context so if you are junior you are going to be on rsv for quite a while. Other folks went over once the schedules improved and the new payrates came out so its a rather diverse group with the senior FO's being very senior and the reserves being very junior. With things stagnant the only way you will get more days off is to not be picky on what days those are. I would trade a 10 day off hard line to a 10 day off reserve line any day, even if it meant not getting off the exact days you wanted b/c you can always trade trips with open time or other FO's. Thinking you can get a 90 hour, 18 day off line with weekends will not be realistic until you are in the top 25% of your bid list. With things stagnant the "year ago" projection technique goes out the window. Sorry.

While I was MEM-based I got 12 days off on the CDOs (I think that's about what they're at, 16 CDOs per month approximately. I'm definitely not expecting too much, it's funny how going back to reserve makes you miss a CDO line even though they actually kinda suck (but at least with that you can trip trade out to get some "normal" trips). But are you saying you'd swap to a reserve line or away from it if you could

I guess at this point with the hiring out the window and all the guys on the streets, I am just glad I managed to get on board when I did. People seem to be calling it the 06/07 hiring "boom" and if that's really the case I barely slipped in! I am hoping the f-word doesn't show up around here, and want my new contract now!

Thanks guys!

 

[higney85]

I am saying I would try to be a lineholder over any possible reserve line. RSV at 9E is rough and even the worst CDO or build up line is far better QOL than the best RSV line. I can see the argument that folks have to remain FO's until they can hold CA lineholder, I still don't agree with it though.

 

[kellwolf]

Also, keep in mind that bidding for specific days off or bidding Sat/Sun off could mean the difference b/w getting a reserve line and a CDO line. You select "desire CDO line" in the "Other options" section, and it can't build you a line with your preferences....reserve, baby. Unless by some strange fluke you can hold a normal line.

As for getting the scraps, if you wind up with reserve the best you can hope for is getting the days you requested off. I managed to get the one day I requested off this month. However, in Sept, I got nada. You're gonna get 10 days off a month not matter what on reserve. I just wish I knew the rhyme or reason scheduling uses to decide who gets assigned PM home, AM home, RRA, RRP and RRL. My requests were "PM home, AM home and RRL" in that order. So, I've got mostly PM home, 4 AM home and several RRP, RRAs in there. WTF? You mean to tell me the 16 guys junior to me on the days I got RR are either all off or already doing RR? Doubt it. It's probably more of a "I'm working this guy's schedule, and I go on break in 10 minutes. So, I'll just get all this done now" type thing.

As far as PBS is concerned, once it give you a reserve line and days off, it's done with you. It's up to screw scheduling to decide WHICH reserve shift you get.