What if ERAU cost the same as UND?

boeing 777-300

New Member
So i currently have a grandpa who was a pilot and has made some good financial choices. he told me that he would help pay for college. he told not to worry about cost when picking a school... therefore, here is my question:

if ERAU and UND cost the same would people not hate ERAU so much? lets assume ERAU was 10K per year plus flight costs (as opposed to 25K + flight) would this make people have a better outlook? from what ive gathered on this forum it sounds like the ERAU eduction is ok but the costs are a bit high....

any ideas? im not sure if the snow at UND is the place for me (rhyme not intended) :yar:

thanks
 
without question UND. We have the best facilities more variety in aircraft, fly in all sorts of weather, and I have a friend from the Daytona campus transfer here, Riddle is part 142 and gets mostly SIM time and their main guy was charged for imbezzlment. yeah the disadvatage is the weather though it gets cold but the climb performanmce is awesome. also more girls :D feel free to browse that link:

http://www.avit.und.edu/f1_Home/index.php
 
Guess what...all airplanes fly the same. It doesn't matter what your degree is in or where from. Go to a small (read:cheap) college, major in underwater basketweaving, or whatever makes you happy and can be a fall-back career, get your ratings where you feel comfortable, and have your grandpa buy you a house or condo with the money you saved him. You'll be set up for life and have nothing but good things from then on.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 
I couldn't be much happier with my flying experiance at UND, I have had excellent CFI's and instructors and the facilities are first class. The only complaint I have is that Grand Forks is a lame excuse for a city. I do agree with TX though, planes fly the same, and when picking a school I would focus almost more on what they offer for your "major" if you are going to major in something other than aviation.
 
Get a real degree, aviation degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on. If you go to ERAU, be prepared to film your own version of Top Gun in a 172 with nice big aviators. If you go to UND, expect to hear CaptainChris talk about Max's 'conda.

However, if you go to University of Miami / Texas / USC / ASU / wherever, get a degree in your backup plan, meet some hotties (see FSU facebook pictures for details), have fun, and not look back at your college life as "The four best years I ever spent with 90% dudes."
 
boeing 777-300 said:
So i currently have a grandpa who was a pilot and has made some good financial choices. he told me that he would help pay for college. he told not to worry about cost when picking a school... therefore, here is my question:

if ERAU and UND cost the same would people not hate ERAU so much? lets assume ERAU was 10K per year plus flight costs (as opposed to 25K + flight) would this make people have a better outlook? from what ive gathered on this forum it sounds like the ERAU eduction is ok but the costs are a bit high....

any ideas? im not sure if the snow at UND is the place for me (rhyme not intended) :yar:

thanks

boeing 777-300,

If cost isn't going to be a factor, I'd recommend looking at what your quality of life standards would be. I had a great time at UND and made a lot of friends, yet it does get awfully cold--no, ridiculously cold in the winter time! Besides, Grand Forks isn't much worth writing home to mom about. If I had to do it over again, I'd be hesitant to return to UND, but it is a good university--espcially for aviation. Their aviation college is tops in the nation!

Also, what you'd major in would also be a strong consideration. Underwater Basket Weaving (UBW), or other similar choice, would not be the best way to go (obviously txpilot may not of been serious stating UBW as a major worth pursuing, but then again, I don't know txpilot). Anyway, you'll come to rely on the degree saught at some point in your life and if your going to do the time why not make it worthwhile?

Just my 2 cents, anyway. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

jkj
Class of '96
 
CaptainChris87 said:
without question UND. We have the best facilities more variety in aircraft, fly in all sorts of weather, and I have a friend from the Daytona campus transfer here, Riddle is part 142 and gets mostly SIM time and their main guy was charged for imbezzlment. yeah the disadvatage is the weather though it gets cold but the climb performanmce is awesome. also more girls :D feel free to browse that link:

http://www.avit.und.edu/f1_Home/index.php
Great recommendation, considering the recommendee may be leaving for ALL-Atps..... :sarcasm: :confused:
 
i forget everytime i post in this forum i have to clear myself of the thought: Aviation degree is useless. yes, thank you i understand that. Now hopefully the thread wont turn into "DONT MAJOR IN AVIATION OR YOUR LEFT EAR WILL FALL OFF!!11":sarcasm:

anyway, i would like to major in buisness or aeronautical something or other, but, i dont want to be loaded with some other major and then not have time to fly.. ultimately leading to a 25 year old with only a instrument rating...

although i said i didnt want to talk about this... wouldnt an aeronauctical science degree be a good way to focus solely on your ratings... instead of being bombarded with work from another major (unless of course i enroll in UBW)
 
boeing 777-300 said:
although i said i didnt want to talk about this... wouldnt an aeronauctical science degree be a good way to focus solely on your ratings... instead of being bombarded with work from another major (unless of course i enroll in UBW)

If you don't want to be challenged in college, go for it. It's the easiest major and the biggest waste of your tuition money. That's why I say it.
 
"Aviation degree is useless"

Even though I've probably said that in the past, it's not useless, it checks the square, which is the most important thing.

"i dont want to be loaded with some other major and then not have time to fly.. ultimately leading to a 25 year old with only a instrument rating"

My first two years I got a general studies degree with an emphsis in physics at the local community college. During that same time I got my IFR, commercial, and CFI. By the time I was 25 I was had 1000 hours, so I don't know what you're worried about. I went to Riddle but wish I had got a degree is something else....a fallback or second career.
 
Chris_Ford said:
If you don't want to be challenged in college, go for it. It's the easiest major and the biggest waste of your tuition money. That's why I say it.

:whatever:
 
UAL747400 said:
:whatever:

It is. Aviation programs teach you a trade. University is not a trade school, its a place to learn more. Learning a trade does not educate you much. And what have you learned in aviation trade school that you wouldn't learn via the FBO route or once you get to airline training anyway?
 
Chris_Ford said:
It is. Aviation programs teach you a trade. University is not a trade school, its a place to learn more. Learning a trade does not educate you much. And what have you learned in aviation trade school that you wouldn't learn via the FBO route or once you get to airline training anyway?

Education is always up to the individual and their efforts. It doesn't end outside the classroom. University is only one means for education.

I want to offer the other side perpective on the major in something else vs. majoring in something aviation related.

Getting a fallback or backup plan by majoring in something else like architecture ,accounting or engineering is good for exposure at least. Once you've been in the industry for 10plus years, get furloughed and apply for that drafting or engineering job there's a fat chance you won't get hired if you haven't had any previous experience for the past few years. You've got plenty of fresh engineering grads, some with state licenses and masters along with years of internship experience in the field competing against a former airline pilot who has had zero exposure to the engineering industry in the past decade. If you do get hired by that drafting company they'll stick you on a entry level desk job making 25k for a start. Maybe they'll put you in the dreaded HR department. You will likely not be a staff drafter or staff engineer. It works like that in many industries. To give an example , my older brother is a very senior manager/controller at one of the big 4 accounting firms and he knows of no firm that will hire without prior college internship or previous extensive experience in the auditing field within two years. Priority for new hire accountants are given to recent college grads. It is similarly comparable to buying a type rating with no experience. It's still about who you know rather than having that framed paper diploma.

Majoring in something else is good for education and to broaden your base of knowledge but I don't think it should be viewed exceptionally and assuredly as a foolproof backup plan. There should be some ins and outs of your backup industry. Networking outside aviation is big key. I pretty much know that I can get an office job at my brother's firm even without an accounting degree in case the aviation industry doesn't work out for me in the future.

Sometimes ,given the situation, majoring in aviation allows one to complete their ratings at the university without too much hassle of the commute as opposed to traveling to the local FBO. My best respectable and cost effective local FBO is practically a 2 and a half hour train and bus ride to another state and then another 2 and a half hour ride back home. That's five hours commute, not including the commute to my former school. Car would be faster but there is no way I am shelling out 4,400 a year for insurance which would be under parent's name, 2.85 a gallon gas, and an additional 4,000 for an old beat up car with 90k plus miles. I've calculated and completing my training at my aviation university which I just recently transferred to proves to be quite cheaper than your typical advice of training at the local FBO and going to a separate college. My local FBO isn't local at all. I have also been awarded with transfer scholarships which is paying a third and pell/TAP which is another third. The 9/11 scholarship fund is also paying for the last third for the next two semesters since my mom lost her job that day. My costs are actually significantly reduced since I will not have a commute, no need for car, insurance, gas, time wasted. I've also saved up some to complete commercial up to MEI from jobs back in high school and during first two years at my former city college.

It all really comes down to different situations for different folks. Of course if one were to live down in florida he would get his/her selection of fbos nearby and cheap instate schools with faster commute and significantly less cost of living.

I also feel that if you really want to make your non-aviation related degree as a backup you should go with something more specialized requiring advanced certs and degrees like nursing , PT, pharmacy. Complete four years undergrad and get into pharmacy, nursing, PT school, etc and work in that industry for several years . Salaries are generous starting 60k to 90k within a few years and all while flying on the side and slowly branching out to instructing building time. Once you have a good sum of savings you can head straight into the airlines or 135 cargo. Once you are furloughed or if industry is in a slump you know you can go back to your old job with all that experience you've gethered.

You have to look at your current situation and evaluate which is best for yourself.
 
"Once you've been in the industry for 10plus years, get furloughed and apply for that drafting or engineering job there's a fat chance you won't get hired"

No argument with that but I like to think of the non-aviation degree as a second area of interest. For example, if I work 12 days a month, that gives me 18 days a month to pursue a second interest. In my case, I think a degree in counseling or ministry would have given me opportunities, even if only as a volunteer, to be involved professionally in something outside of aviation. If aviation took a dive, I could turn my turn that experience into a job. That's kinda how I look at it.
 
CoBuilder said:
Education is always up to the individual and their efforts. It doesn't end outside the classroom. University is only one means for education.

I want to offer the other side perpective on the major in something else vs. majoring in something aviation related.

Getting a fallback or backup plan by majoring in something else like architecture ,accounting or engineering is good for exposure at least. Once you've been in the industry for 10plus years, get furloughed and apply for that drafting or engineering job there's a fat chance you won't get hired if you haven't had any previous experience for the past few years. You've got plenty of fresh engineering grads, some with state licenses and masters along with years of internship experience in the field competing against a former airline pilot who has had zero exposure to the engineering industry in the past decade. If you do get hired by that drafting company they'll stick you on a entry level desk job making 25k for a start. Maybe they'll put you in the dreaded HR department. You will likely not be a staff drafter or staff engineer. It works like that in many industries. To give an example , my older brother is a very senior manager/controller at one of the big 4 accounting firms and he knows of no firm that will hire without prior college internship or previous extensive experience in the auditing field within two years. Priority for new hire accountants are given to recent college grads. It is similarly comparable to buying a type rating with no experience. It's still about who you know rather than having that framed paper diploma.

Majoring in something else is good for education and to broaden your base of knowledge but I don't think it should be viewed exceptionally and assuredly as a foolproof backup plan. There should be some ins and outs of your backup industry. Networking outside aviation is big key. I pretty much know that I can get an office job at my brother's firm even without an accounting degree in case the aviation industry doesn't work out for me in the future.

Sometimes ,given the situation, majoring in aviation allows one to complete their ratings at the university without too much hassle of the commute as opposed to traveling to the local FBO. My best respectable and cost effective local FBO is practically a 2 and a half hour train and bus ride to another state and then another 2 and a half hour ride back home. That's five hours commute, not including the commute to my former school. Car would be faster but there is no way I am shelling out 4,400 a year for insurance which would be under parent's name, 2.85 a gallon gas, and an additional 4,000 for an old beat up car with 90k plus miles. I've calculated and completing my training at my aviation university which I just recently transferred to proves to be quite cheaper than your typical advice of training at the local FBO and going to a separate college. My local FBO isn't local at all. I have also been awarded with transfer scholarships which is paying a third and pell/TAP which is another third. The 9/11 scholarship fund is also paying for the last third for the next two semesters since my mom lost her job that day. My costs are actually significantly reduced since I will not have a commute, no need for car, insurance, gas, time wasted. I've also saved up some to complete commercial up to MEI from jobs back in high school and during first two years at my former city college.

It all really comes down to different situations for different folks. Of course if one were to live down in florida he would get his/her selection of fbos nearby and cheap instate schools with faster commute and significantly less cost of living.

I also feel that if you really want to make your non-aviation related degree as a backup you should go with something more specialized requiring advanced certs and degrees like nursing , PT, pharmacy. Complete four years undergrad and get into pharmacy, nursing, PT school, etc and work in that industry for several years . Salaries are generous starting 60k to 90k within a few years and all while flying on the side and slowly branching out to instructing building time. Once you have a good sum of savings you can head straight into the airlines or 135 cargo. Once you are furloughed or if industry is in a slump you know you can go back to your old job with all that experience you've gethered.

You have to look at your current situation and evaluate which is best for yourself.

YES YES YES!!!! This guy has posted one of the few rational posts in this entire forum regarding aviation degrees and backup plans.

Thank you, you have no idea how bad I've wanted to say this very thing, but who's gona listen to some 21 y/o college studing with a jumping banana lama as their avatar with no real knowlege or examples on the matter? :)

It makes perfect sense though. Who's gona hire some guy that's been out of school and most likely out of practice for 20-30 years over someone thats fresh out of college with experiance as an intern or better?
 
Yep DE. You're certainly right. I do agree that a non aviation degree gives a much broader perspective within different areas of interests. I forgot which famous person said that "education is entertainment". You offered a nice suggestion of volunteer work on off days. It can be a pleasant second job.
 
UAL747400 said:
YES YES YES!!!! This guy has posted one of the few rational posts in this entire forum regarding aviation degrees and backup plans.

Thank you, you have no idea how bad I've wanted to say this very thing, but who's gona listen to some 21 y/o college studing with a jumping banana lama as their avatar with no real knowlege or examples on the matter? :)

It makes perfect sense though. Who's gona hire some guy that's been out of school and most likely out of practice for 20-30 years over someone thats fresh out of college with experiance as an intern or better?

I've contemplated this for a while with my parents and brother so that's what made me draw to that conclusion. I don't really mean to say that a degree outside aviation is useless as a backup plan but rather it should be seen as one piece of a backup plan. It shouldn't be viewed as a means to an end. You still have to get involved in your second backup industry : volunteering like DE suggested, maybe pursue something more specialized and in demand like nursing , PT like buffalopilot here on the forums, or have a connection and network of guys and girls that can possibly help you land a job. People change careers all the time too. You're not going to have everyone at the HR department of Morgan Stanley having management, marketing, or PR degrees.
 
I just get a little irritated when I see something along the lines of "dont major in aviation because its bad and you should major in something, ANYTHING...." stuff. That is absolutely terrible advice.

You get an aviation degree(I really wish they would change the name of the major back to aeronautical science) because you want one. Not because you need one. Which is the beauty of it all. Some people find it hard to believe I think that one of those "anything" degrees is aviation.

I myself have a pretty good backup plan figured out, of which doesnt include studying something that would be just as useless as aviation if not practiced. Which is the most important thing.
 
UAL747400 said:
I just get a little irritated when I see something along the lines of "dont major in aviation because its bad and you should major in something, ANYTHING...." stuff. That is absolutely terrible advice.

You get an aviation degree(I really wish they would change the name of the major back to aeronautical science) because you want one. Not because you need one. Which is the beauty of it all. Some people find it hard to believe I think that one of those "anything" degrees is aviation.

As the byproduct of an aviation degree, I have to disagree merely on what I have observed. At Purdue, for example, the requirements to get into the flight program are high, due to a limited number of slots. This allows them to be ridiculously selective, with quite a few kids in the program who got >1400 on their SATs. They get into the aviation program and proceed to take 4 years of aviation classes. Think about that for a second. How, as an administrator, do you stretch aviation into a true four year program? Three, sure, but at least at Purdue, it's very difficult to be finding classes to fill in that schedule come year 4 when all you have to take is "Airline Indoctrination" which is taught by someone who hasn't flown for an airline in 20+ years.

Yes, education is what you make of it, and I've used my excess credits to learn a third language and take some personally interesting classes, but a bulk of my classmates don't apply themselves any harder than they need to. So they get the aviation education and nothing more. How well rounded of a person does that make someone? I'll answer that for you: not well rounded at all. To talk to a lot of these people is more painful than anything, simply because the only thing they know about is airplanes.

Sure, it's your prerogative, but why go through the tough selection process and then simply give up on learning something other than blue collar work?
 
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