What do you do with students who don't study?

ILSstud

ILSstud

Well-Known Member
What do you do with students who don\'t study?

So I was in a flight school near MKE a few days ago, and I heard an instructor quizzing a student (who I believe was just about to get his commercial) about basic systems and such and this guy had NOOOOO clue what he was talking about. So what do you do as instructor's with guys (and/or girls) like this? Frankly I'd get some hours out of him and then drop him haha.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

what you do is you tell him what he needs to study the night before. The first time he shows up you quiz him and see if he studied. If he didnt then you say well we have to know this before you go fly so you spend whatever time you need teaching him what needs to be taught. Usually you wont have enough time to fly by this point so you will say see how much money it costs you if you dont study. Most of the time this motivates them to study so you dont have to waste all that time that could be used for flying just learning what you can teach yourself at home. If it gets to be a real problem where the student has flown for a while you may have to cancel a flight or two and say look if your not prepared from now on then we arent even going to fly or do any ground and I will still bill you. If that doesnt work then they are a lost cause and they need to find a new instructor.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

Well considering I'm sitting here waiting for my oral at Mesa, maybe I can help.

Bottom line is that if your students don't know something, remind them they are wasting THEIR time and most importantly YOUR time because they're paying for it. Most students responded favorably to a little bit of a refresher lesson just prior to being grilled into oblivion by me, so sometimes just doing a mock oral where you give the answers and then giving a real quiz type oral helps. It really depends on the student, but bottom line that no one can emphasize enough is that the student should self study enough to be fairly prepared. Obviously the amount of material we have at Mesa on the CRJ is a lot more thorough than most stuff on a 172, the principle is the same. Your students if they're motivated should actively search out and discover the information on their own and you should act as the channel. I had a problem with this when I first started teaching and I'll tell you what I learned...

They're paying for it, make youself some extra money and teach it and quiz it again and again until you either run them out of money or they get it right. I hate to have a bad attitude about it but this kinda stuff isn't for people that can't put the effort into learning it. And if someone wants to pay $XX an hour for you to spoon feed it, so what I can eat steak and not ramen this month.

Wish me luck... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

If my student's don't study, I'll just get out the textbook and read it to them. I'll do that for about a half hour then tell them that i'd be more than happy to continue but they're paying $32 an hour for something they can do by themselves for free.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

I kick them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

[ QUOTE ]
I kick them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloyd!

You're not allowed to touch a student!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif





Use a stick.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I kick them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloyd!

You're not allowed to touch a student!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif





Use a stick.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad...I keep forgetting... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Smilecrunch.gif
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I kick them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloyd!

You're not allowed to touch a student!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif





Use a stick.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad...I keep forgetting... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Smilecrunch.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I know.


I've seen the reports....


Not pretty.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

Ahhh .. yes I can sell you one of my Patented Student Be Good Sticks ... tough, durable, Comfo-Grip and in a variety of colors... made of high impact PVC which wipes easily (blood, skin, brain matter) ...

oh, wait .... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

Taking something away from people - is the best sales tool. If they are not studying tell them that until they study you are not going to invest your time teaching them, as it is abvious they do not want to learn.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

Take them up and do a really difficult lesson... one that is well ahead of where they are. That way, you get time (and pay), they get to fly, but they didnt really get anything out of it. You've flown, but the lesson was in vain. This may influence them to study more, because a prepared pilot is a more confident pilot and generally performs better in the air. This was a self motivating factor I learned when I was first getting my feet wet. The flying was too difficult for me because I didnt really know what I was doing, which turned out to make it less fun and more frustrating (this was all with family before I officially started taking lessons). I figured, if I know more, maybe I will fly a little better, and studying did worlds of difference.

Then again, maybe they are just lazy and they figure they dont need to study. Let them do it their way and get paid, eventually they will quit or figure it out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

Along those lines, I'd say have the entire flight under the hood (assume this is not for an instrument student). That way, they at least get some stuff they need out of it. And, they are very likely not going to be prepared to deal with flying by instruments, so they'll be all over the place. Insist on not moving on until each task can be done well for a minute. Move on to unusual attitude recoveries, and the lack of preparation will be apparent.

If you are in a spinnable aircraft, go up and do stalls, and stand on a rudder for them as it breaks into the stall, and see if they know how to recover the spin (again, unlikely if there was no pre-study).

Basically, find ways to really show them that there is study needed for the lesson.

If they wimp out, then just log the flight as "scenic local flight/familiarization" so there is no training value out of it for them (since they put nothing into it) and you still get paid your dual time.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

Well, pretty much none of these answers are what it says in the book.

Providing adequate instruction means talking to the student to find out what makes them tick. If the student keeps showing up unprepared, find out why. Work on the why.

It makes a lot more sense to get the student motivated and willing to finish their rating than to frustrate them out of finishing their training. This way, you get paid for more hours, and, have more students that are interested in their instrument, commercial, and maybe instructor ratings. Better for them, better for the instructor.

Buy, hey, what do I know. I'm a flight instructor.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

[ QUOTE ]
Providing adequate instruction means talking to the student to find out what makes them tick. If the student keeps showing up unprepared, find out why. Work on the why.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen. Show me an unprepared student and I'll show you a lousy teacher.
Something I've noticed as an instructor is many students don't know how to study properly. Sometimes the "problem" can be solved by giving a litle instruction on how to study. It sounds simple, but I've worked with enough "problem students" to conclude that study habits are generally weak.
Many instructors just don't want to take the time to get to know what makes a student tick...there are a lot of right-seat timebuilders who simply want the flight time.

Of course, if all else fails, mild electric shocks might work.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

That sounds like a rather accusatory statement and I'm going to call BS on you.

Sure weaker students have a tendency to have poor study habits or lifestyles which don't permit effective learning, but I have seen my fair share of students who simply should not be pilots, and no amount of "here's how to study" instruction will help them. I've flown with a guy that had 90 hours that hadn't soloed yet. You think I should teach him how to study? No...not gonna work. I've had students that just refused to show up for activities because they thought they were ready for their checkride when they couldn't remember how to do slowflight. You think I'm a lousy teacher because of that? Well then I bet I could teach you something. Some people just don't care and that's not our fault.

I wouldn't go around accusing every instructor out there of being a lousy teacher because everyone has "that" student. There are a fair share of CFIs out there that just don't care about their students progress, and I've had to repair damage to students that those CFIs have done. But for those of us that worked hard to make decent students out of what we had in front of us, don't go accusing us of being lousy teachers. Not everyone can make it out there, but the best we can do is help, and spoon feed them until they can get through their checkride and move onto the next challenge with them.

What's the mark of a good instructor in my opinion? Someone that doesn't have to spend time sitting at their desk thinking about what makes their student tick because they don't study. Someone that can tell what kind of pilot you're going to be just by the way you slide your seat up. That's how I could tell. Can't find the seat adjust rail, can't be a pilot. That little tip proved accurate at least 90% of the time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

[ QUOTE ]
What's the mark of a good instructor in my opinion? Someone that doesn't have to spend time sitting at their desk thinking about what makes their student tick because they don't study. Someone that can tell what kind of pilot you're going to be just by the way you slide your seat up. That's how I could tell. Can't find the seat adjust rail, can't be a pilot. That little tip proved accurate at least 90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see "Senior Check Airman" in your future. Well, I remember when I was 23. My style of instruction: if the student can't find the seat adjust rail, I show them where it is. That little tip has been successful 100% of the time.

Best of luck in yor airline career.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

Not trying to take either side in the discussion, but I think if you're clear with your expectations when he first starts training, he'll perform.

I used to tell my students that if they came unprepared for the lesson, I'd cancel the training event and charge them with a no show.

Sure it could have been categorized as harsh, but having a student show up at the airport unprepared to perform lazy 8's is a waste of time because unless you've mentally prepared to execute the manuever, it's a little late to teach it as you're approaching the practice area.

Granted, as a CFI, you can make a crap load of cash from unprepared students because you'll invariably spend more ground instruction time with them and have longer training flights. But when you've got a full 'dance card' of students, it can be a time waster.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

Make him do 30 push-ups for each wrong asnwer plus a $50 fee for wasting my time.
 
Re: What do you do with students who don\'t study?

[ QUOTE ]
Make him do 30 push-ups for each wrong asnwer plus a $50 fee for wasting my time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Physical discomfort can be forgotten. Now, psychological/emotional discomfort...hmm.
 
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