Weight and Balance?

E

ElyJs

New Member
I am searching for the reg and can't find a requirement for a load manifest or weight and balance except for 135 ops. Can someone please help? What do I need to have a a legal weight and balance. Just a empty weight and cg arm? Or do I need a equipment list also? My online search brought me to someone with the same question.

Thanks for the help

-Jason

Hi, all,

We all know about this one... AROW. Airworthiness Certificate, FAA Registration of Aircraft, Operating limitations and placards, Weight and balance. (I remember when it was ARROW and still have my radio license.)

I have challenged CFIs at every BFR for the last 20 years to show me where this "conglomeration", making up AROW, come from using the FAA regs and the AIM. Specifically, weight and balance.

I have come up with:
91.9 (a) Operating Limitations, markings, and placards
91.203 (a)(1) Airworthiness Certificate
91.203 (a)(2) U.S. Registration Certificate

But where is Weight and balance required? It is "kinda, sorta" implied in:
91.103 (b)(1) - Approved airplane flight manual
91.103 (b)(2) - Other reliable information, aircraft performance, aircraft gross weight
91.9 (b)(1) - airplane flight manual

Anyone up to a challenge to get answered where the "W" on AROW can be found in the regs or AIM ? (so far, 10 CFIs couldn't find the answer!)

Thanks!

Jeff
 
ElyJs said:
I am searching for the reg and can't find a requirement for a load manifest or weight and balance except for 135 ops. Can someone please help? What do I need to have a a legal weight and balance. Just a empty weight and cg arm? Or do I need a equipment list also? My online search brought me to someone with the same question.
Click to expand...

There is no broad, all-encompassing regulation that requires weight and balance information to be on the aircraft. However, for aircraft that require an AFM, weight and balance information is required to be in that manual. Additionally, many aircraft have on their type certificate requiring current weight and balance information, or an AFM.

Pertinent regulations:
Aircraft with no flight time prior to March 1, 1979 must have a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual. (14 CFR 21.5)

Must be carried aboard the aircraft, if an Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) is required (14 CFR §23.1589):

The following loading information must be furnished:

1. The weight and location of each item of equipment that can be easily removed, relocated, or replaced and that is installed when the airplane was weighed under the requirement of §23.25.
2. Appropriate loading instructions for each possible loading condition between the maximum and minimum weights established under §23.25, to facilitate the center of gravity remaining within the limits established under §23.23.
​
 
ElyJs said:
I am searching for the reg and can't find a requirement for a load manifest or weight and balance. . .

I have challenged CFIs at every BFR for the last 20 years to show me where this "conglomeration", making up AROW, come from using the FAA regs and the AIM. Specifically, weight and balance.
. . .

Anyone up to a challenge to get answered where the "W" on AROW can be found in the regs or AIM ? (so far, 10 CFIs couldn't find the answer!)
. . .
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: I've asked several examiners the same question. What I've learned is that there's no legal requirement to have the w&b calculation for your load. There's a legal requirement to operate within the operating limitations (which are contained in the POH / AFM). How would you know if you're operating within the limitations if you don't do the W&B exercise? I think it is the law of survival, and not the FARs, that require you to do the w&b calculation.

I understand that if you're ramp checked by the FAA you can do the exercise during the ramp check to show that you're within the limits.

ARROW is outdated / wrong for several other reasons also. . . e.g.;
1. Placards are required all over the airplane, but these documents are not included in ARROW (they're also in the POH / AFM, just like W&B, but omitted from the ARROW memory aid).
2. If you use a MEL: Show me where ARROW covers the MEL, letter of authorization, and the list of deferred items, etc.
3. How many airplanes have a radio station licence on board?
 
Alright thanks for the good info. These are the exact answers I was looking for. Want to check you CG in flight? Pitch up 15-20 degrees with full power. Decrease airspeed to 1.2 Vso, yank the power out. Nose comes down, your probably ok, mush or tail drops you messed up your calculation.

-Jason

BTW I may be more of a lurker but I spend a bunch of time on jetcareers and point all my students aspiring to be professional pilots to this site. Tgrayson you are the king of regs and I appreciate all of your responses. (Are you sure you don't work for the FAA/practice law on the side?)
 
cre8flyer said:
What I've learned is that there's no legal requirement to have the w&b calculation for your load.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone claims the "W" in AROW means that you are supposed to carry a W&B calculation for every flight; rather that you must have the aircraft's W&B data on board for flight.

In my Jepp textbook it says, "A weight and balance report is initially prepared by the manufacturer and is maintained by the aircraft owner or operator. In addition, the report must be carried in the airplane anytime it is flown, in order to meet the standard airworthiness requirements." No reg reference, but that statement leads me to believe it's buried in Part 23 somewhere as part of the aircraft info documentation.
 
Not that I'm the voice of experience, but I've always looked at it as one of those CYA things.

If something bad happens and you end up talking to the FAA about an incident which could be the result of a W/B discrepancy, you're going to want to be able to show that you were within published limitations. You will need documentation, a current W/B for the flight in question readily available.
 
Berkut said:
I don't think anyone claims the "W" in AROW means that you are supposed to carry a W&B calculation for every flight; rather that you must have the aircraft's W&B data on board for flight.
Click to expand...

Yes. I agree that the requirement is to have the W&B data from when the airplane was weighed. This is the legal requirement. However, what good is it to have that data when you're flying (except to appease the FAA)? I'd rather have the complete w&b exercise for the actual load. This is the law of survival.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top