Way's to lose your license

jarhead28

jarhead28

Well-Known Member
Hi, student pilot here pining for the big boy life :rolleyes:. I've seen several threads where the issue of failed checkrides, airline checks has come up resulting in loss of license/job etc. The way I understand it is that implies loss of certs/ratings permanantly thereby driving you out of flying. One post mentioned one training sesion, a six month renew of some kind mentioned being "in jeapordy". What are the implications of that jeapordy?

So what I'm driving at here is what chance I may have of losing it all for a stupid/simple mistake because some Federale' didn't get his wheaties that morning or are they examples of eggregious stupidy/mistake where one deserves to be drivern out of the industry?

Just starting to follow my "Dream" at the age of 34 as a career changer. Looking to be 121 driver and live the dream, but want to be realistic too.

Any advice/knowledge appreciated!
 
You wouldn't necessarily lose your license for failing a six-month recurrent check, but the company doesn't necessarily have to keep you employed. I guess that's where the jeopardy comes in.
 
Howdy Jarhead-

"Lose your license" and "Lose your job" are two different things.

Losing your license, debatably, is pretty darned hard. We're talking you can get violated, suspended, but to get revoked is pretty extreme. Most folks that get revoked have done something that perhaps would have gotten someone kilt ded (Southern colloquialism).

Now the jeopardy involved with being a professional pilot is different.

Under part-121, we're given checkrides throughout our career. Initial, when we first check-out on a new airplane. Upgrade, when we move from right seat to left seat. And "recurrent" when we go back for "re-training", as required once or twice a year.

If you screw up some part of training and fail, different companies approach this different ways.

At my last company, we didn't have a re-test policy. If you failed recurrent, upgrade, initial, whatever, you were fired. Jeopardy!! Big time.

At my current company, you're allowed re-training then a re-test. If you fail the re-test, then things get very sticky and you may be looking for another job. I'm not exactly sure what the process is because I'm too lazy to go dig thru the FOM to see.

If you show up well-prepared and have a good attitude, you needn't worry about the 'jeopardy' involved with a training event.
 
There are many risks involved in this career. Its not just your pilot certificate, but also you medical certificate, the instablility of the industry, and a buttload of other things that could go wrong that could leave you looking for a new job/career. Its the reality of the lifestyle and you have to decide if you want it badly enough to accept that reality among other realities that you'll have to face. For me, I love aviation with everything I am, and although I'd be devistated if anything happened and I could not continue my career, the experience I've had I would not trade for anyting. For me the reward out-weighs the risks. If that is how you feel, you will love this job! If not, get out now while you still can. This is the kind of job that you really have to love it, and want it more than anything else you can immagine. If that's how you feel, it is totally worth it. If not, you will be miserable. Only you can decide. Good luck!
 
Sometimes you do encounter the fed that's in a pissy mood and that can make for an ...... uncomfortable flight. Pilots bust FARs from time to time and if the Fed that's watching decides to be a jerk, well you can get a fine, warning, or violation. But that doesn't mean you're fired from your job.

Tons of pilots blow a checkride during their training, espically the inital ones like private, instrument, CFI, and you may have to explain it during an interview, but as long as you learned from your mistake and tell them how you overcame the setback, it's no big deal. By the time you get to the airlines, you should have things down pretty solid so blowing a checkride is A LOT less likely.

And, as usual Doug is right on with his post, if you're well prepared and have the right attitude, you shouldn't have much to worry about. It's when pilots get cocky and think their #### don't stink and therefore are beyond having to study or prepare that gets them in trouble.

Most companies (and CFIs if they are worth your time and money) want to see you pass, and once you pass inital training, subsequent checkrides are just the same thing over and over, if you passed the check before, you should be able to pass it again.

Also, people screw up on checkrides, if the whole flight goes well but you mess up one thing that's kinda big, examiners can give you the benefit of the doubt. Aviation has a million things that can make one think that they are always on the verge of losing everything they've worked for, so it's important not to focus on all the negative possibilites or you'll be a walking ball of stress. ;)
 
The thing about checkrides is that you can't be 70%, 80% or even 99% correct and still pass. You must perform 100% of the checkride satisfactorily or you fail. So it is a stressful situation.

My advice would be to train well, do your education the right way and be well prepared for the flying and jobs that you are looking to do.

If you have 300 hours...look to CFI until 1000 hours. Next get some charter experience. By the time you have 1500 hours you should be minimally qualified to accept the challenges present in airline flying.

Preparing yourself in this fashion will reduce the stress in your training and actually make it enjoyable.

I look forward to training because it's a chance to sharpen your skills and a chance to be at your best when your best is required. It's all part of why we all want to be pilots. (Unless you are a sunglasses on your forehead in the Starbucks line kinda guy. :) )
 
Bottom line is...you're always gonna have to "perform" under some one else's watchful critical eye. And you will always, forever, have to perform to the same (or greater) standards than when you started.

In this business, you never get to be a fat-a$$ed-know-nothin'-can't-deliver-'home boy'....in the airplane.:D
 
This actually happened...... an ATR capt. failed to upgrade to the EMB-145,so the company allowed him to go back to the ATR but he also failed his PC with a fed. watching (709 ride ). The company fired him and the feds took his ATP away along with his type rating, but let him keep his comm,inst,and multi and cfi. Turns out he was going through a divorce and his father had died during training.
 
Good question.

I was in the training department, among other things, at the last shop.

Pretty much what everyone has said is correct.

The only thing I can add is that a 709 ride (which is given by the FAA ONLY if you're performance is SO poor, they can question your ability to operate at a certificate level) is VERY rare. VERY rare. I've known of some, and the circumstances that led to the ride made it clear that the ride should have been given.

In Jettison's case, the poor pilot was going thru training under significant duress. I've seen this before, and talked to pilots in a similar set of circumstances. If you are under duress of a huge amount, such as a divorce or death or serious illness of a family member, and are unable to focus 100% on training (because every time you have to focus 100%), don't do the event. You may have to explain or take a leave, but safety is always first. If you can't pass a training event in your state, you probably shouldn't be boring holes in the sky either.

Best of luck!!!
 
One of my friends, a few months ahead of me in new hire ground school, was just starting 727 FE school after a few weeks of indoc.

His wife has a heart attack and the new hire coordinator says, "Go home, you'll lose no seniority, here's a ticket home, call us when you're ready to continue".

Another one of my classmates left had to get up and leave, during his checkride, when his wife went into labor and everyone was cool with it. But throughout the process, the APD (check airman) and the training department knew that when the pager went off, he had to get goose.

Most companies, as I've seen, are very reasonable. If there's some major life event going on, you best bet is to communicate with the program manager or whoever is overseeing that phase of your training.

Not that every company will bend over backwards to assist you in your time of need, but the ones that are worth a damn would.

But you've got to communicate that early in the process.
 
Two seperate issues here.

1, losing your government issed pilot certificates.

2. failing a checkride.


Getting your pilot certificates revoked is extreamly rare. You would have to display complete disregard for the rules and/or complete incomptence as a pilot. There is a lengthy process including possible retraining, a flight with an FAA inspector to see if you are really that unsafe, and an appeals process


Failing a check ride at some point in your career is not uncommon. It's not a good thing, however as long as it is not a pattern of failed checkrides it's not a huge deal. Busting a checkride for a rating is not a deal breaker in 99% of companies. At one point 50% of people applying for thier CFI cert had to retake that ride.

Re: initial and recurrent training at an airline. They are and have spent a large amount of money hireing and training you, there fore they want to see you succeed. Unless you really fail to put forth a real effort they will help you through.
 
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