Washout rate for OTS at Level 12 facility

jamcan162

New Member
Anyone have first hand knowledge of what this rate is?...no guesses or speculation.

What's the biggest factor in why people quit?

Any OTS people out there currently at a 12 want to shed some light?...
 

K-Dog

New Member
I believe ATLTRACON said something like 75%. And at A80 they've never had an OTS or CTI fully qualify. (correct me if I'm wrong)
If that is the case...why would thay continue sending OTS'rs there after 10's of thousands of dollars of training? Seems kind of counterproductive to me:panic:
 

nathanw

New Member
If that is the case...why would thay continue sending OTS'rs there after 10's of thousands of dollars of training? Seems kind of counterproductive to me:panic:
This was all previously discussed in another thread. Suffice it to say that it is indeed true, and the FAA doesn't care so long as they can show how many people they've hired.
 

GyasiM

New Member
Tower.

why quit...pressure? too much to take in?
Why are rookies quiting & and getting "let go" is an excellent question, one that I have never seen a legit answer to on this forum. I'll see the word "Stress" thrown out there, but you can't really get more subjective than that word!

Sounds like a huge disconnect between The big cheese of the FAA and the director of HR for the FAA. Because if your looking at turnover rates this high after THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS of training invested in each person, all while you are losing 51 year olds to retirement everyday, and experienced controllers not wanting to transfer because they don't want to work harder for less pay. Well, then someone @ HQ is making a big mistake.

We can throw out ton's of ideas, but it will all come down to green sheets of paper called money. A rookie is going to quit if he is thrown into the fire to fast because he is thinking, "I love this job, but they don't pay me enough to deal with this crap and expectations" Old folks are going to retire cause they are thinking "I'm to old to be working all this overtime to train these kids who need more legit training, they don't pay me enough for this, i rather retire and sit in my hammock"
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
In before ATL says, "100%".

This statistic, of course, pertains to every facility, and every controller <edited>
Now that's classy.

The prevailing thought by the FFAA is that they will send 30, throw them against the wall and hope that 3 make it. Hasn't happened yet...anyone getting checked out that is.

BTW you really show your age and maturity level when you say moronic comments. Hope to see you at A80.

DOn't know quite what to say about the stupid and innacurate comment, but I do know that I have been checked out in a lever 12 for probably more time than you've been alive...take it for what it's worth know-it-all.
 

nathanw

New Member
Why are rookies quiting & and getting "let go" is an excellent question, one that I have never seen a legit answer to on this forum. I'll see the word "Stress" thrown out there, but you can't really get more subjective than that word!

Sounds like a huge disconnect between The big cheese of the FAA and the director of HR for the FAA. Because if your looking at turnover rates this high after THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS of training invested in each person, all while you are losing 51 year olds to retirement everyday, and experienced controllers not wanting to transfer because they don't want to work harder for less pay. Well, then someone @ HQ is making a big mistake.

We can throw out ton's of ideas, but it will all come down to green sheets of paper called money. A rookie is going to quit if he is thrown into the fire to fast because he is thinking, "I love this job, but they don't pay me enough to deal with this crap and expectations" Old folks are going to retire cause they are thinking "I'm to old to be working all this overtime to train these kids who need more legit training, they don't pay me enough for this, i rather retire and sit in my hammock"
That's the problem. They're not looking at the turnover rate. They don't care about that. And the money wasted... well it is the government we're talking about.

As far as the washout rate, in any facility trainees have a maximum amount of time to reach certain qualification levels. New hires have to learn all the basic stuff (phraseology, etc.) as well as facility specific things (memorizing all the airspace and loa's and such) in not enough time. They're getting fired (or if they're lucky, transferred) because they're not qualified when they're supposed to be. Current controllers who transfer to the high-level facilities have a hard enough time doing it in the allowed time and they already know the basic stuff.
 

HiDef

New Member
Anyone have first hand knowledge of what this rate is?...no guesses or speculation.

What's the biggest factor in why people quit?

Any OTS people out there currently at a 12 want to shed some light?...
OTS at level 12's aren't quitting, they're washing out and being fired. Big difference.

HD
 

venividibitchy

New Member
Now that's classy.

The prevailing thought by the FFAA is that they will send 30, throw them against the wall and hope that 3 make it. Hasn't happened yet...anyone getting checked out that is.

BTW you really show your age and maturity level when you say moronic comments. Hope to see you at A80.

DOn't know quite what to say about the stupid and innacurate comment, but I do know that I have been checked out in a lever 12 for probably more time than you've been alive...take it for what it's worth know-it-all.
Yes, how childish of me to merely remark upon what you and your syndicates present on here. One of these days I will tour A80, and you'll be shocked when I disclose my user ID on here, because I'm not the caustic child that many would assume. Just a little tenacious.

As far as washout rate goes, I will assume that at least 50% of those OTS washouts entered this process knowing not what to expect, what they were responsible for, and with the idea that they would be rolling in dough for minimal duties. Many people try jobs on like they would a new set of clothes, and when it isn't what they had expected, they cop out. It's a bit heinous to blame the FAA for every single trainee's failure, when this is a job that requires a certain kind of person, and you cannot gather information from a test or interview, and all of the classes in the world cannot mold everyone.
 

Skywatcher87

New Member
I'd sayn your best bet is to just suck it up and try your best. Don't worry about the washout rates and all that junk. We all know we are getting into a hard, stressful occupation, and you can either handle it or you can't. There isn't much you can do besides try, so worry about that bridge when its time to cross it.

The being said, if you have the choice to start at a lower level facility, it is probably a good idea to do so, everything gets easier with practice, but it is easier to practice somewhere that you aren't freaking out at.:crazy:
 

jamcan162

New Member
Lot's of good responses. It sounds like a race against time. I'm guessing the firings of trainees is from underperforming.

You're absolutely right Skywatcher, and that's what I intend to do. I was trying to sniff out a recurring theme to why people dropped out...and avoiding it.

"Impossible is a big word for small men."
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
Just a little tenacious.
Is tenacious another word for being an expert on something you know very little about??

As far as washout rate goes, I will assume that at least 50% of those OTS washouts entered this process knowing not what to expect even if you have relatives in the business, NO ONE knows what to expect...no one, what they were responsible for, and with the idea that they would be rolling in dough for minimal duties. Many people try jobs on like they would a new set of clothes, and when it isn't what they had expected, they cop out. It's a bit heinous to blame the FAA for every single trainee's failure, when this is a job that requires a certain kind of person, and you cannot gather information from a test or interview, and all of the classes in the world cannot mold everyone.
remind me to be absent the day you come to A80, oh wait I'm there 60+ hours a week, nvm.
 

BoomerSooner77

New Member
Now I am confused. Are you all primarily talking about Tower?

I was under the impression that while the washout rate was still relatively high for ARTCC (enroute), there is much more ability to succeed at ARTCCs (enroute).
 
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