Want Turbine time? Gotta work for free...

CRJDriver

CRJDriver

Well-Known Member
Actual job posting! This industry will never change :banghead:

Job Description:
I am looking for a co pilot who is willing to earn their time in a King Air 350. What I mean by earn your time is you will be assisting me in the cleaning and management of of King Air 350.
It's simple there is no full time job so to speak but if you are looking to build turbine time and are willing to put forth a little elbow grease and want to learn how to manage aircraft here is an opportunity.

Minimum Requirements:
Insurance requirements are: Minimum CMEL,Instrument airplane,
I would like to see atleast 500 total time with 100 multi. Turbine time a plus.

Please include a current resume and a brief letter giving me an idea of your interest,(what do you do for fun) this is just to see if we will work well together.
 
Like I said before, one of the worst "jokes" that came to actual fruition was during the early '90s, when the "will fly for food" craze came along.
 
MikeD said:
Like I said before, one of the worst "jokes" that came to actual fruition was during the early '90s, when the "will fly for food" craze came along.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but now it's "Will fly for flight time.... or maybe we can split it?":banghead:
 
Yeah, that's not flying for free. That's "clean my airplane" and I'll let you sit in the right seat and build turbine time, if I actually let you touch the controls that is....
 
Where do we draw the line?

I mean cleaning the airplane and doing other little things around for flight time is wrong?


I definitely oppose flying for free but this looks like an exchange of services.
 
Sounds like an intern type thing which you may actually learn stuff which may come in handy in the future. Could be worth a try depending on how much work he has you do.
 
PGT said:
Where do we draw the line?

I mean cleaning the airplane and doing other little things around for flight time is wrong?


I definitely oppose flying for free but this looks like an exchange of services.
Click to expand...

Umm... the guy is required to have a copilot. He's offering to be gracious enough to let you be a required crewmember if you'll clean his plane for him? That's pay to play last time I counted.
 
I know what you guys are saying, but don't give away your services for free. It sounds like a job to me and therefore you should get some sort of payment. These types of arrangements sound fishy, he could make you clean the hangar, clean the airplane, and who knows if you'll ever get to fly it. He knows you're a low time pilot and he has ya by the balls so to speak. I wouldn't move for this job, but if its local and you have some other way to support yourself it might work for you. I have to agree with CRJ, someone will take this job, and therefore this industry probably won't change any time soon....
 
CRJDriver said:
Minimum Requirements:
Insurance requirements are: Minimum CMEL,Instrument airplane,
I would like to see atleast 500 total time with 100 multi. Turbine time a plus.

Please include a current resume and a brief letter giving me an idea of your interest,(what do you do for fun) this is just to see if we will work well together.
Click to expand...

There's the main focus right there. If there's insurance involved, you really should be getting paid to do it. If you walk up and say "Yeah, I've got my CMEL, but I don't have an instrument rating" and the guy says "Sorry, insurance won't cover you," that means it's a JOB. Jobs are supposed to pay money to YOU rather you paying money to get one. Or in this case paying "elbow grease" for a potentially empty promise. "Hey, I cleaned the hangar, washed the plane and spit shined the lav. Can we go fly now?" "Yeah, kid. Maybe tomorrow. I got a lot of paperwork to do right now...."
 
Doesn't the King Air 350 require a type? Not sure if he can operate it single pilot or not, but that's not the point. Don't you think with a Commercial and 500 TT you are worth getting paid for your services?
 
PGT said:
Where do we draw the line?

I mean cleaning the airplane and doing other little things around for flight time is wrong?


I definitely oppose flying for free but this looks like an exchange of services.
Click to expand...

Managing an airplane that you cannot even log PIC time in for free is wrong in my opinion. Now if the guy was offering to let a kid with a fresh multi engine ticket ride along and the time was loggable, then it would not be too farfetched for the owner to ask him to wipe the plane down every so often.

Alex.
 
CRJDriver said:
Doesn't the King Air 350 require a type? Not sure if he can operate it single pilot or not, but that's not the point. Don't you think with a Commercial and 500 TT you are worth getting paid for your services?
Click to expand...

According to the Beechcraft website, it's max TO weight is 15,000lbs.
 
msmspilot said:
Umm... the guy is required to have a copilot. He's offering to be gracious enough to let you be a required crewmember if you'll clean his plane for him? That's pay to play last time I counted.
Click to expand...

I realized I overspoke on this one. He's probably required by insurance to have a copilot.
 
Standard procedure at our airport. Spend a couple of days a week exchanging labor for free training in the company's cargo ships. After a year or so, move to the left seat for $100~150 per day pay, then after another year or so move to one of the local airlines for a real job and good pay. The contacts you make during the process ensure your progress up the ladder, and before you know it you're making big bucks in big airplanes. (Or, if not big bucks, at least pretty good bucks!)

Seems like a good deal to me. I'm midway through this process now and having a blast! Fun people to work with, cool airplanes to fly and the immense satisfaction of seeing my skills improve as I mature into a professional pilot.

To those pilot-wannabes unwilling to pay these dues I just say: Step aside.
 
CRJDriver said:
Actual job posting! This industry will never change :banghead:
Click to expand...
And whose fault is that? We see these ads and we like to blame it on the industry. We like to blame it on unscupulous company owners who place the ads. But whose fault is it really?

A person who gets their wallet stolen at gunpoint is a victim. A person who takes out their wallet, holds it over their head and yells someone please take this from me, is a sucker. I got no sympathy for suckers.
 
gliderboy said:
Standard procedure at our airport. Spend a couple of days a week exchanging labor for free training in the company's cargo ships. After a year or so, move to the left seat for $100~150 per day pay, then after another year or so move to one of the local airlines for a real job and good pay. The contacts you make during the process ensure your progress up the ladder, and before you know it you're making big bucks in big airplanes. (Or, if not big bucks, at least pretty good bucks!)

Seems like a good deal to me. I'm midway through this process now and having a blast! Fun people to work with, cool airplanes to fly and the immense satisfaction of seeing my skills improve as I mature into a professional pilot.

To those pilot-wannabes unwilling to pay these dues I just say: Step aside.
Click to expand...

How much food can you buy with all that satisfaction and turbine time? I'm willing to bet it's the same amount of respect you get by donating your time to someone making money off your efforts.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
And whose fault is that? We see these ads and we like to blame it on the industry. We like to blame it on unscupulous company owners who place the ads. But whose fault is it really?

A person who gets their wallet stolen at gunpoint is a victim. A person who takes out their wallet, holds it over their head and yells someone please take this from me, is a sucker. I got no sympathy for suckers.
Click to expand...

.....and there will always be someone willing to jump at a job like this.

As bad as airline guys harp on airline management and CEOs, like Ornstein for example (though he's no saint at all); if Ornstein somehow legally cut their already low wages by 50%, he'd still have a stack of resumes of people wanting to fly his planes.
 
CRJDriver said:
Doesn't the King Air 350 require a type? Not sure if he can operate it single pilot or not, but that's not the point. Don't you think with a Commercial and 500 TT you are worth getting paid for your services?
Click to expand...


You can get single-pilot typed in the 350.

Smells like this guy is telling the insurance company he's operating it two-pilot to get the insurance break, but not paying for the second pilot.
 
gliderboy said:
then after another year or so move to one of the local airlines for a real job and good pay.

To those pilot-wannabes unwilling to pay these dues I just say: Step aside.
Click to expand...

First off, have you seen regional pay rates. Maybe if you're making nothing 20,000 a year seems like good pay. For most of us that don't live on food stamps it's barely even a mortgage payment.

Second, this isn't about paying dues. This is about being exploited, I don't really care if there is a precedent. If you're required to have someone sit right seat in a plane, then you should pay them. I know there are people out there that don't need money and will do just about anything to be a pilot. However, they need to have a little respect for the rest of the population that needs to make money in order to eat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top