VOR-A vs VOR-B?
- Thread starter P&H
- Start date
Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING!
I always thought the letters indicated that the course from the last fix to the runway was more than 30° off the centerline (but not necessarily circle to land), and that the different letters indicated either different approaches using the same navaid, or a revision of a previous off-centerline approach.
flyguy
Well-Known Member
If I'm not mistaken, you'll see that if there is more than one VOR approach with more than 30 degrees off the centerline of a runway. The first one will be titled VOR A, the second VOR B, etc. For example, maybe one aprroaches from the north, the other from the south, and neither is aligned with a specific runway.
fish314
Well-Known Member
This is absolutely correct. If you create multiple approaches to a field that are circling only the first one is -A, the second is -B, the third is -C, etc. (The letters are from the beginning of the alphabet).
Similarly, sometimes you'll see more than one straight in type approach to the same runway using the same equipment (like 2 ILS's to runway 8R, for example). In this case, the first will be named ILS 8R Z and the second ILS 8R Y, etc., etc. (letters from the back of the alphabet).
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Bingo!
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
There does not need to be more than one circling approach for there to be an -A approach, but any subsequent ones will be -B, -C, etc.
If there is more than one straight in approach of the same type to one runway, the lettering starts with -Z and works backwords. I think DFW has some of these, as does VPS.
Derek_S
New Member
Just to expand a little bit, there are three different cases where you will have a VOR-A (B,C, and so on).
1. Final approach course 30 degree's off from the runway's extended centerline.
2. Final approach course does not lead you to the beggining of a runway.
3. The approach requires a decent rate of at least 400 feet per nautical mile.
1. Final approach course 30 degree's off from the runway's extended centerline.
2. Final approach course does not lead you to the beggining of a runway.
3. The approach requires a decent rate of at least 400 feet per nautical mile.
PanJet
Well-Known Member
Very interesting.
Also, I'm curious, why would there be two of the same type of approaches to the same runway like having two ILS 8R's like you guys were talking about? What's the logic?
tgrayson
New Member
Typically different equipment requirements.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Could be. Sometimes it could be a different arrival; ILS Y or LOC Y 19 vs. ILS Z or LOC Z 19 @ VPS, the Y is if you arrive from the south and has a DME arc taking you around restricted areas, the Z is for an arrival from the north. Both require DME or RADAR.
Some times you really don't know; ILS Y or LOC Y 18L vs. ILS Z or LOC Z 18L @ DFW. The Y has a DA or 880 and higher mins, the Z has a DA of 802 and lower mins. Other than that, I see no difference. Maybe some one else can spot a difference.
PanJet
Well-Known Member
I've stared at them for a while and found no difference either. There must be some legal reason for the two approaches. A friend of mine had a theory that I don't really think is correct, but I'll throw it out there. He said perhaps they're labeled differently so more than one aircraft can be descending on the approach at the same time since they would technically be on separate approaches. Doesn't seem like this would be possible, but who knows.
jrh
Well-Known Member
LOL...tell that to the crash investigators when two planes become one in the clouds. "But...but...but...LEGALLY they were on different approaches."
Not making fun of you at all...just very certain this theory is incorrect.
dbakeg00
Well-Known Member
Someone once told me that if you have a VOR-B approach into an airport but no VOR-A, then it could possibly mean that at one time there was a VOR-A but the FAA made substancial changes to the approach (ie different inbound course, drastically different approach minimums, etc...), thus the name change. Anyone else ever heard of this or was I lied to?
tgrayson
New Member
From TERPS, FAAO 8260.3:
162. CIRCLING PROCEDURE IDENTIFICATION. When an approach procedure does not meet criteria for straight-in landing minimums authorization, it shall be identified by the type of navigational aid (NAVAID) which provides final approach guidance, and an alphabetical suffix starting with the beginning of the alphabet. The first procedure formulated shall bear the suffix “A” even though there may be no intention to formulate additional procedures. If additional procedures are formulated, they shall be identified alphabetically in sequence, e.g., VOR-A, VOR/DME-B, NDB-C, NDB-D, LDA-E, RNAV-A, etc. A revised procedure will bear its original identification.
And from FAAO 8260.19C:g. Volume 1, Paragraph 162, Circling Procedures.
(1) Do not duplicate the alphabetical suffix for circling procedures at an individual airport to identify more than one circling procedure. If more than one circling procedure exists, and regardless of the final approach alignment or type of facility, use successive suffixes.
Example: NDB-A, VOR-B, LDA-C.
(2) The alphabetical suffix for circling procedures shall not be duplicated at airports with identical city names within one state. Regardless of the airport name, successive suffixes shall be used for all airports which serve the same city.
Examples:
State City Airport Procedure
Georgia Atlanta Municipal VOR-A
Georgia Atlanta DeKalb NDB-B
Georgia Atlanta Fulton VOR-C
PanJet
Well-Known Member
You probably weren't blatantly lied to. Aviation and other industries alike, you wouldn't believe how much false information is out there. I've probably passed some of it along myself before I realized it was false. It's just a matter of checking out what really is the truth.
You have choices to make in life. You can accept what you hear at face value, and pass it along as fact, or you can do your own research. Either way, you'll develop a reputation. You'll be thought of as the guy that told me a lie, or the guy that misled me, or the guy that you should go to whenever you have a question, because he always has the right answer.
tgrayson has developed a reputation of being the guy with the right answer because he never relies on hearsay -- he always goes to "the book." Whenever I see his screenname in a thread, I relax, knowing the answer will be there, accurately. All I have to do is read -- I don't have to go look in the book myself, I don't feel the need to post something to correct a misstatement or misunderstanding. I know he's already got all that covered.
"The Book" is available online -- if you can post here, you can look there. Whether it's the Code of Federal Regulation (or FARs, if you still want to say that) are online. The AIM is online. TERPS is online. Dig in, folks. It's free, it's good stuff -- oh, and it's your career. Don't settle for what Jimbob at the FBO said. Don't be lazy -- Find the right answer.
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tgrayson has developed a reputation of being the guy with the right answer because he never relies on hearsay -- he always goes to "the book." Whenever I see his screenname in a thread, I relax, knowing the answer will be there, accurately. All I have to do is read -- I don't have to go look in the book myself, I don't feel the need to post something to correct a misstatement or misunderstanding. I know he's already got all that covered.
"The Book" is available online -- if you can post here, you can look there. Whether it's the Code of Federal Regulation (or FARs, if you still want to say that) are online. The AIM is online. TERPS is online. Dig in, folks. It's free, it's good stuff -- oh, and it's your career. Don't settle for what Jimbob at the FBO said. Don't be lazy -- Find the right answer.
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