Vmc Demo in Seminole
- Thread starter bap327
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RiddlePilot
New Member
What part of the maneuver are you struggling with exactly? 'm no MEI, but I can probably give ya a couple tips.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
Just a question, since it's been about a year since I did stalls in a multi. Do you guys do slow flight and power off stalls below VMC? Or do you recover from the imminent stall before going before redline? I want to say I did slow flight and stalls below VMC for my checkride, but can't remember.
Mr_Jimmy_Fly
New Member
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Just a question, since it's been about a year since I did stalls in a multi. Do you guys do slow flight and power off stalls below VMC? Or do you recover from the imminent stall before going before redline? I want to say I did slow flight and stalls below VMC for my checkride, but can't remember.
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Take down to redline, then below if you can. At first sign of a stall or going over like a barrel, recover. Density alt in Florida kinda screws up our Vmc demos.
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Wow! You stall the airplane while doing a Vmc demo? I would like to observe that (from the ground).
.
Just a question, since it's been about a year since I did stalls in a multi. Do you guys do slow flight and power off stalls below VMC? Or do you recover from the imminent stall before going before redline? I want to say I did slow flight and stalls below VMC for my checkride, but can't remember.
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Take down to redline, then below if you can. At first sign of a stall or going over like a barrel, recover. Density alt in Florida kinda screws up our Vmc demos.
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Wow! You stall the airplane while doing a Vmc demo? I would like to observe that (from the ground).
.
RiddlePilot
New Member
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Density alt in Florida kinda screws up our Vmc demos.
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Hahahaha...you make me laugh. Density altitude here was something like 8000 today. On the ground.
Density alt in Florida kinda screws up our Vmc demos.
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Hahahaha...you make me laugh. Density altitude here was something like 8000 today. On the ground.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
I do remember what we did on VMC demos.....
1. pulled power to 12" on the left engine, full power on right engine, maintaining level flight if able.
2. Established a pitch attitude that resulted in a 1 mph per second decrease in airspeed.
2. Limited rudder input 10 mph above red line.
3. Initiated recovery at first sign of loss of directional control or stall.
4. simultaneously reduced power to idle on the operating engine and pitched down slightly.
5. Once at blue line, added power to the operating engine to maintain level flight and airspeed at blue line.
On my checkride, the examiner seemed preturbed that I limited rudder input 10 mph above stall, but most other MEI's I've talked to agree that it's best to limit rudder input at 10mph/knots above VMC, especially in a situation where density altitude is high.
1. pulled power to 12" on the left engine, full power on right engine, maintaining level flight if able.
2. Established a pitch attitude that resulted in a 1 mph per second decrease in airspeed.
2. Limited rudder input 10 mph above red line.
3. Initiated recovery at first sign of loss of directional control or stall.
4. simultaneously reduced power to idle on the operating engine and pitched down slightly.
5. Once at blue line, added power to the operating engine to maintain level flight and airspeed at blue line.
On my checkride, the examiner seemed preturbed that I limited rudder input 10 mph above stall, but most other MEI's I've talked to agree that it's best to limit rudder input at 10mph/knots above VMC, especially in a situation where density altitude is high.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
do remember what we did on VMC demos.....
1. pulled power to 12" on the left engine, full power on right engine, maintaining level flight if able.
2. Established a pitch attitude that resulted in a 1 mph per second decrease in airspeed.
2. Limited rudder input 10 mph above red line.
3. Initiated recovery at first sign of loss of directional control or stall.
4. simultaneously reduced power to idle on the operating engine and pitched down slightly.
5. Once at blue line, added power to the operating engine to maintain level flight and airspeed at blue line.
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With the exception of number 2 (I was STANDING on that sumbeotch!), that's pretty much how we did them in the Travel Air which HAS a critical engine. (correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seminole is a recip, right?... i.e., no critical engine?).
It's a pretty straight-forward maneuver and one that SHOULD go smoothly and quickly if learned right.
Keeping your heading should be THE main point of the entire maneuver as Vmc is the loss of directional control.
In short, fly the airplane as you would for an engine-out demo as that is basically all the maneuver is with the exception that you are adding a higher angle of attack into the mix......, and at the FIRST sign of loss of directional control or stall (buffeting, stall horn), do as #4 & #5 above.
Keep an eye on your heading and just fly the plane, don't let it fly you. (okay - sorry about the cliche.
).
Best of luck!!
R2F
do remember what we did on VMC demos.....
1. pulled power to 12" on the left engine, full power on right engine, maintaining level flight if able.
2. Established a pitch attitude that resulted in a 1 mph per second decrease in airspeed.
2. Limited rudder input 10 mph above red line.
3. Initiated recovery at first sign of loss of directional control or stall.
4. simultaneously reduced power to idle on the operating engine and pitched down slightly.
5. Once at blue line, added power to the operating engine to maintain level flight and airspeed at blue line.
[/ QUOTE ]
With the exception of number 2 (I was STANDING on that sumbeotch!), that's pretty much how we did them in the Travel Air which HAS a critical engine. (correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seminole is a recip, right?... i.e., no critical engine?).
It's a pretty straight-forward maneuver and one that SHOULD go smoothly and quickly if learned right.
Keeping your heading should be THE main point of the entire maneuver as Vmc is the loss of directional control.
In short, fly the airplane as you would for an engine-out demo as that is basically all the maneuver is with the exception that you are adding a higher angle of attack into the mix......, and at the FIRST sign of loss of directional control or stall (buffeting, stall horn), do as #4 & #5 above.
Keep an eye on your heading and just fly the plane, don't let it fly you. (okay - sorry about the cliche.
Best of luck!!
R2F
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
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(correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seminole is a recip, right?... i.e., no critical engine?).
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The Travel Air is a recip too.
I think you meant to say that the Seminole has counter-rotating props (meaning it does not have a critical engine per se)...where the Travel Air does not.
(correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seminole is a recip, right?... i.e., no critical engine?).
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The Travel Air is a recip too.
I think you meant to say that the Seminole has counter-rotating props (meaning it does not have a critical engine per se)...where the Travel Air does not.
C650CPT
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[With the exception of number 2 (I was STANDING on that sumbeotch!), that's pretty much how we did them in the Travel Air which HAS a critical engine. (correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seminole is a recip, right?... i.e., no critical engine?).]
This is a falsehood ( IMO ) in Multi training ie: an airplane with counter rotating props ( which is what I assume you meant concerning the Seminole ), has no critical enging. What does the term Critical Engine mean?
[It's a pretty straight-forward maneuver and one that SHOULD go smoothly and quickly if learned right.]
Word of CAUTION ... don't rush the Vmc maneuver. As stated the degradation of airpseed should be at the rate of one knot per second. This demonstrates Static Vmc, if you rush it you may see Dynamic Vmc ... which is a lot worse and possibly non recoverable.
[Keeping your heading should be THE main point of the entire maneuver as Vmc is the loss of directional control.]
At what point does one initiate a recovery ... 5 degrees of heading loss , 10 degrees of heading loss, 20 degrees ... ? Personally as soon as heading control is lost demo is over ... with the qualified statement that any stall indication is an IMMEDIATE recovery.
[In short, fly the airplane as you would for an engine-out demo as that is basically all the maneuver is with the exception that you are adding a higher angle of attack into the mix......, and at the FIRST sign of loss of directional control or stall (buffeting, stall horn), do as #4 & #5 above.]
Airspeed is Life ... Airspeed is Life ... Airspeed is LIfe
[Keep an eye on your heading and just fly the plane, don't let it fly you. (okay - sorry about the cliche.
).]
Have a plan that will work and work your plan
Best of luck!!
R2F
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[With the exception of number 2 (I was STANDING on that sumbeotch!), that's pretty much how we did them in the Travel Air which HAS a critical engine. (correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seminole is a recip, right?... i.e., no critical engine?).]
This is a falsehood ( IMO ) in Multi training ie: an airplane with counter rotating props ( which is what I assume you meant concerning the Seminole ), has no critical enging. What does the term Critical Engine mean?
[It's a pretty straight-forward maneuver and one that SHOULD go smoothly and quickly if learned right.]
Word of CAUTION ... don't rush the Vmc maneuver. As stated the degradation of airpseed should be at the rate of one knot per second. This demonstrates Static Vmc, if you rush it you may see Dynamic Vmc ... which is a lot worse and possibly non recoverable.
[Keeping your heading should be THE main point of the entire maneuver as Vmc is the loss of directional control.]
At what point does one initiate a recovery ... 5 degrees of heading loss , 10 degrees of heading loss, 20 degrees ... ? Personally as soon as heading control is lost demo is over ... with the qualified statement that any stall indication is an IMMEDIATE recovery.
[In short, fly the airplane as you would for an engine-out demo as that is basically all the maneuver is with the exception that you are adding a higher angle of attack into the mix......, and at the FIRST sign of loss of directional control or stall (buffeting, stall horn), do as #4 & #5 above.]
Airspeed is Life ... Airspeed is Life ... Airspeed is LIfe
[Keep an eye on your heading and just fly the plane, don't let it fly you. (okay - sorry about the cliche.
Have a plan that will work and work your plan
Best of luck!!
R2F
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kellwolf
Piece of Trash
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Wow! You stall the airplane while doing a Vmc demo? I would like to observe that (from the ground).
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Yeah, the airplane normally stalls BEFORE you hit Vmc, therefore the demo never really gets there. Stalling while doing Vmc is just crazy. That's why we end the manuever at the first sign of the stall instead of pushing it.
Wow! You stall the airplane while doing a Vmc demo? I would like to observe that (from the ground).
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Yeah, the airplane normally stalls BEFORE you hit Vmc, therefore the demo never really gets there. Stalling while doing Vmc is just crazy. That's why we end the manuever at the first sign of the stall instead of pushing it.
JayB
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Just a question, since it's been about a year since I did stalls in a multi. Do you guys do slow flight and power off stalls below VMC? Or do you recover from the imminent stall before going before redline? I want to say I did slow flight and stalls below VMC for my checkride, but can't remember.
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Since no one has anwered this question yet, I'll be happy to. Stalls and slow flight are typically done below red line. This is safe because neither engine is producing enough power to really cause a problem, and both engines are turning. Chances are, even in a power on stall, that if you lost an engine during the manuever, you would quit the manuever before actually stalling the airplane. I don't know of anyone who practices stalls single-engine (probably because anyone who did would be pushing up daisies by now). It isn't likely that you'll encounter an imminent stall above red line unless you're flying in some interesting flight attitudes.
Jay
Just a question, since it's been about a year since I did stalls in a multi. Do you guys do slow flight and power off stalls below VMC? Or do you recover from the imminent stall before going before redline? I want to say I did slow flight and stalls below VMC for my checkride, but can't remember.
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Since no one has anwered this question yet, I'll be happy to. Stalls and slow flight are typically done below red line. This is safe because neither engine is producing enough power to really cause a problem, and both engines are turning. Chances are, even in a power on stall, that if you lost an engine during the manuever, you would quit the manuever before actually stalling the airplane. I don't know of anyone who practices stalls single-engine (probably because anyone who did would be pushing up daisies by now). It isn't likely that you'll encounter an imminent stall above red line unless you're flying in some interesting flight attitudes.
Jay
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Hmm, maybe I've got it backwards. Maybe it's Vmc that occurs before stall. I know we were talking about one occurs before the other in Florida, and this was on the ground before we got in the plane. Nevermind, I've only got 0.7 MEL, so I really don't have a clue yet anyway.
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
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Hmm, maybe I've got it backwards. Maybe it's Vmc that occurs before stall. I know we were talking about one occurs before the other in Florida, and this was on the ground before we got in the plane. Nevermind, I've only got 0.7 MEL, so I really don't have a clue yet anyway.
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In the seminole, Vso is 55 and VMC is 56. Usually you will stall the plane first during th VMC demo if you don't restrict rudder or aileron movment.
The seminole is a great airplane. I have had it well below Vmc still flying beautifully.
Hmm, maybe I've got it backwards. Maybe it's Vmc that occurs before stall. I know we were talking about one occurs before the other in Florida, and this was on the ground before we got in the plane. Nevermind, I've only got 0.7 MEL, so I really don't have a clue yet anyway.
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In the seminole, Vso is 55 and VMC is 56. Usually you will stall the plane first during th VMC demo if you don't restrict rudder or aileron movment.
The seminole is a great airplane. I have had it well below Vmc still flying beautifully.