Violated!

M

mshunter

Well-Known Member
Here is the scenario:

A few friends were out for the Thanksgiving Holiday last week. I decided to take them on a sight seeing flight around So Cal. They wanted to see the Channel Islands. So out we went. I flew around the islands at around '500, about 1/4 to 1/2 mile off shore for some pictures. Today my work recived a phone call to one of the office girls about an airplane flying around the Islands, and the Park Ranger wanted the name of the person flying the airplane. It is charted as a Wildlife area, but I have never read anything anywhere that you "must" maintain '2000 AGL above. Just "recomended" stay above '2000 AGL. I am currently looking into the FAA's site for someone being violated for this, and will post back.


My question is, what can I be violated for. What, if any regulation am I missing other than the obvious 91.13? Nothing I did was either careless or reckless.

Opnions.
 
Don't you mean "1/2 mile" rather than "1/4 to 1/2 mile" ? Otherwise you are okay. I think they sheep won't mind.
 
The regs state that you are RECOMMENDED to maintain 2000' AGL and above. You are not REQUIRED to. You didn't violate anything. Still, it might be better to fill out a 277-B NASA form.
 
flyingwriter is correct, except it is not 'recommended' it is 'requested'. With a dbag like that as a park ranger I think I would fly as low as legally allowed all day doing air work.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
With a dbag like that as a park ranger I think I would fly as low as legally allowed all day doing air work.
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I didn't want to say that first, but I fully agree. He is trying to excercise muscle that was never granted to him. I have never meat a park ranger that was worth a <explative deleted>. Mostly all of them have Napolean complex.
 
You can't be violated for flying below 2000, however those areas are covered by a state law and I believe you can be fined and get jail time now...

Good luck!
 
trafficinsight said:
You can't be violated for flying below 2000, however those areas are covered by a state law and I believe you can be fined and get jail time now...

Good luck!
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I don't see how that couldn't be in the regs but you could still get screwed by the state....

Islands.png
 
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap7/aim0704.html

c. Federal statutes prohibit certain types of flight activity and/or provide altitude restrictions over designated U.S. Wildlife Refuges, Parks, and Forest Service Areas. These designated areas, for example: Boundary Waters Canoe Wilderness Areas, Minnesota; Haleakala National Park, Hawaii; Yosemite National Park, California; and Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, are charted on Sectional Charts.
 
I also found something in CA fish and game code 10501.5(a) 50 CFR part 27.34 and 50 CFR 19.11

Evidently there are federal laws too :\
 
Do they expect you to read the entire CFR before flying anywhere? They should have it on the sectional chart IMO.
 
mrmeschi said:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap7/aim0704.html

c. Federal statutes prohibit certain types of flight activity and/or provide altitude restrictions over designated U.S. Wildlife Refuges, Parks, and Forest Service Areas. These designated areas, for example: Boundary Waters Canoe Wilderness Areas, Minnesota; Haleakala National Park, Hawaii; Yosemite National Park, California; and Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, are charted on Sectional Charts.
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Thankfully, thats the AIM, and is not regulatory. I already had a talk with the Chief Pilot about this.
 
Slugger said:
I don't see how that couldn't be in the regs but you could still get screwed by the state....
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Very easy, the FAA and local law enforcement are completely separate entities and follow different rules. Ask a seaplane pilot what it takes to figure out if a given lake is legal to operate on...
 
So the next question is, do I call this guy back, and play stupid, or do I refuse to contact him, and tell the office the same, and see what happens.....

I don't want to call this guy up, so he knows who to issue the violation to...
 
mshunter said:
So the next question is, do I call this guy back, and play stupid, or do I refuse to contact him, and tell the office the same, and see what happens.....

I don't want to call this guy up, so he knows who to issue the violation to...
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If they've already given him your name, I'd tell him what you did and why you didn't think you were doing anything wrong. Being nice can never hurt.

If he figured out you were refusing to call him back, I think he'd be more prone to filing some claim or something.
 
Slugger said:
If they've already given him your name, I'd tell him what you did and why you didn't think you were doing anything wrong. Being nice can never hurt.

If he figured out you were refusing to call him back, I think he'd be more prone to filing some claim or something.
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They haven't given him any names. I was sitting right there when he called, and felt like reaching through the phone and bitch slapping him. The thing is, w/out looking through the dam code book, I never found the regulation, untill it was posted here. How the 'eff was I supposed to know. I even looked on their website, and saw nothing. And the law doesn't refrence any kind of distance from the islands, just a height. So 1/4 to 1/2 mile seems fair to me.
 
That is interesting. I wouldn't think states would be able to make statutes that differ from the FARs considering the interstate nature of air traffic but I guess you learn something new everyday.
 
Ignore him.

You haven't done anything violation worthy to the FAA, now state law - could be another thing all together.

Contact AOPA Legal for further guidance.
 
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